retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

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rossko
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#381 Post by rossko » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:26 pm

retrosii wrote:...I have two feeds for idle one infront of each mixer
But feeds for what? Is that where the idle control valve is taking clean air from? If so you won't get a stable idle on LPG, because the ICV is adding fresh air. You want the ICV to pickup its air supply from after the mixer(s), so that it feeds gas/air mix to the manifold (after the throttle). Is that where the cast-in channel we can see in that last photo goes to?

EDIT Looking back at earlier photos, you did have the ICV intake connected after the mixers, not before. Has that changed?

The skinny pipe may be a petrol tank breather, you'll have to follow it and find out?
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retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#382 Post by retrosii » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:45 pm

Sorry my mistake the the air gas is coming after the mixers so it pulling thiugh gas and air but it is using two mixer just wonering if I shiukd change it to one ...
The other pipe is only about 8" long and only goes from the icv to the intake pipe before the throttle .

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#383 Post by rossko » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:32 pm

... it is using two mixer just wonering if I shiukd change it to one ...
You could try it - more air flowing through only one mixer shoud improve the aerodynamics there at idle. But the risk is that gas could pool in the non-flowing throttle throat and cause a hiccup on applying the throttle later. Can't predict that, depends how 'leaky' the throttles are and on the gas idle setup.
The other pipe is only about 8" long and only goes from the icv to the intake pipe before the throttle .
So could that give an unexpected fresh-air path through the idle circuit?
Thinks: is that idle air valve actually vacuum operated, with the electrical gubbins elsewhere? The mystery pipe might then just be a clean-air connection at atmospheric pressure to the non-vacuum side of the valve's bellows. Doesn't look that way though?
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#384 Post by retrosii » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:03 pm

Ok so ive been away and not doing a thing on the car but been thinking about the idle problem .
So its idling rich when the car is at temp but if I flip it to gas when its cold it is not so rich so im thinking the petrol ecu is closing the icv when the car is cold (autochoke) so it runs not so rich on gas than when its at temp the perol ecu is seeing the car is rich at idle and opening the icv to let in more air but its letting more gas also .
So how do I solve this problem?
I can think of a few ways
1 have the idle come from one mixer nd not two (posible problem with gas back up)
2 retrict the pipe controling the air and gas (may stop the petrol idle working)
3 try and adjust the idle control valve (might work)
4 this is a long shot but im wondering it the lpg ecu can control a stepper for the idle on the vaporizer could I se a normal stepper on the idle pipe and plug it in to the lpg ecu ??? Thats a long shot but may work really well.

Any ideas guys ????

Or any one have a old stepper they can sell me so I dont need to buy a new one incase it is barking up the rong tree?


Thanks for all the help guys

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#385 Post by rossko » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:58 pm

retrosii wrote:im thinking the petrol ecu is closing the icv when the car is cold (autochoke)
Methinks that's cobblers. Mixture would be completely unaffected by the ICV opening or closing, because as we've already discussed the ICV feeds not just air but the gas/air mix from after the mixer(s).

Please, please give us more information. If you think it is rich at idle on gas - what is the step value? what is the lambda sensor doing? If you think it is good at revs - what is the step value? what is the lambda doing?

You restricted the mixers, so you will need to adjust; where is the idle screw on the vap at now?
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#386 Post by retrosii » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:24 pm

Yeah I never thought about the gas and air already being mixed deeeeeer...lol.....
Well the stepper only starts opperating at about 1500-2000rpm bcause it still thinks there is a separate stepper to control idle . So the stepper does nothing at idle .
When the car is at revs (above 2000rpm) the stepper stays around half and the lamda swings back and forth as its ment too..
I have closed the idle screw and am only using the main ajuster screw.
I have not tightened the idle screw to thight though as I have herd they can break quite easy
Do I need to tighten it more ???

It just seems to be a idle isssue as it will idle alot richer when the car is up to temp

Any ideas???

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#387 Post by rossko » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:57 pm

What is "actuator position" (numbers please!) at idle on gas?
What is "lambda" at idle on gas?
What is "default position"?
retrosii wrote:When the car is at revs (above 2000rpm) the stepper stays around half and the lamda swings back and forth as its ment too.
What numbers does "actuator position" vary between under these conditions?
retrosii wrote:I have not tightened the idle screw to thight though
That's fine, it doesn't need to be more than finger tight.
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#388 Post by retrosii » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:35 pm

I will check the numbers when I get a chance may not be till the weekend though .
I will take a video and post it might be easier that way .

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#389 Post by retrosii » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:16 pm

Need to be serious now . My car is now starting to hesitate and not rut smooth on petrol after my drive home on lpg .
I have lost all confidence whith this project and have decided I need someone to finnish it off before I do any damage to my engine . (Im running normal spark plugs not lpg one dont knowif this is a problem?)
So if anyone is willing to help me out and finnish the project please p.m a rough price , im in cornwall so preferably not to far up country ...
My wife needs a new car so funds are tight so if I cant afford the work I will have to remove the lpg kit try sell on the parts and unfortunately may have to sell my car aswell.

Cheers for all the support guys .

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#390 Post by Gilbertd » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:31 pm

If the mixture when running on gas is wrong, the petrol system will try to correct the mixture even though you aren't running on petrol. When you do run on petrol, the mixture will be way out until it sorts itself out again. Put it this way. When running on gas all you have done to the petrol system is disconnected the petrol injectors, the ECU doesn't know it isn't doing anything, it thinks it is still controlling the mixture. So, lets say your gas system is running weak. The petrol ECU detects that the engine is running weak so increases the petrol injector pulse durations to try to make the mixture correct again. It adjusts by a bit and it's still weak, so it adjusts a bit more, still weak, give it a bit more and so on. When you switch over to petrol, it is running stupidly rich so won't run right until it learns and adjusts the injector pulse durations back to where they want to be.

Your problem is that you are using a geriatric controller that was designed to operate a separate stepper for idle which you don't have and stream mixers that you don't know are suitable for your engine in the first place. Whatever happens it looks like you are going to have to throw more money at it, whether by paying someone to diagnose the problem (and then replace whatever needs to be replaced) or replace the controller or mixers or maybe both.

Stick with standard plugs, 'special' LPG ones seem to be only special in price.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#391 Post by retrosii » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:03 pm

What do you suggest ?
Might give it another go on the weekend
Anyone think I should change the lpg controller if so what too. for whaat reason and whats the cost and work is involved

Wife says if its not running lpg its got to go so please help lol.

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#392 Post by demonicwillow » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:19 am

She,s in charge then :lol: :lol:

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#393 Post by retrosii » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:10 am

Yep I know my place lol. Cant do things with car that I like to do with her so its a no brainer . Plus I have 3 kids under 6 so woukd rather spend petrol money on them .

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#394 Post by Gilbertd » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:56 am

OK, personally I wouldn't have used a relatively rare, secondhand, controller in the first place and would have bought some mixers that were the correct ones for your engine. You've got too many variables so you don't know if the problem is one of incorrect setup or incompatibility.

Having got this far, I'd swap the controller (and loom) for a Leonardo. See if that was capable of controlling the mixture properly and, if it can't, get some mixers intended for your engine. People will tell you that normal mixers reduce performance on both fuels due to the restriction placed in the intakes. While this is true, it the mixers only become a restriction at wide open throttle and how often do you use that? In my experience, the reduction is so insignificant it is not really noticed anyway.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

rossko
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#395 Post by rossko » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:26 pm

I'd still be looking hard at what's there already, before guessing what might make it better. Previous requests for info remain unanswered.
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retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#396 Post by retrosii » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:10 pm

Should get some time tomorrow or monday to try it out . Been driving all day today nakard now lol.

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#397 Post by retrosii » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:31 pm

Been looking around on the net just in case I cant get it working and leonardo controllers seem to be one of the priciest isthis because they are so good ?
Have seem some other makes at good prices such as bingo are other makes ny good or should I only be looking for leo systems ?
Any chance any one has one knocking bout they want to sell :wink: :!:

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#398 Post by retrosii » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:33 pm

Been looking around on the net just in case I cant get it working and leonardo controllers seem to be one of the priciest isthis because they are so good ?
Have seem some other makes at good prices such as bingo are other makes ny good or should I only be looking for leo systems ?
Any chance any one has one knocking bout they want to sell :wink:

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#399 Post by Tubbs » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:41 am

Leonardo, omvl millennium, bigas pegaso, zavoli (can't remember the name) are all the same.
The kme bingo is supposed to be good. Bit I've never fitted one. So I'm not sure.
But yes the Leo, in all its guises are the best lambda, stepper controller for mixers.

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#400 Post by Gilbertd » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:54 am

Zavoli version is called the Regal.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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