lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

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superkp
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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#101 Post by superkp » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:10 pm

I TRIED WITH AN OLDER LPG CABLE and got same results
below is a copy from my pc.. note on com3 it has a different message but it was not the assigned com port for the cable
com4 is assigned with the cable but still 0 files copied?
the drivers were downloaded from the website where I bought the interface.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>copy con com4
test 0 file(s) copied.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>copy con com3
testThe system cannot find the file specified.
0 file(s) copied.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>copy con COM4
TEST 0 file(s) copied.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>COPY CON COM1
TEST 0 file(s) copied.

Brian_H
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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#102 Post by Brian_H » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:55 pm

it may just be down to the windows version you have used then, i haven't got a windows 7 machine setup so can't try that on there.

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#103 Post by superkp » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:47 am

bit of a pain but I will rig my pc up next to my car and give it a go

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#104 Post by superkp » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:26 pm

cant believe it the adapter 7 for cable I bought was wired wrong ccl.pl emailed me back after I sent photos saying

"Ok now we know everything, it's our fault . The adapter is mistaken for two cables - brown with white on the white cube. In my photo is shown what it should look like. This change could not damage your interface or car. Will you be able to change these two cables by yourself? You would have to push the pins lightly, then all you need to do is replace them"
as soon as I swapped it worked.
48 old errors 1 to 48 all voltage errors

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#105 Post by Brian_H » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:47 pm

It happens, at least you've sorted the cable out now. Any idea on the exact wording of the message? Bear in mind a poor system connection to the car either at the battery, switched live or ground might cause a lack of power. Usual place that happens is in the fuse holder from the battery leaf.

superkp
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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#106 Post by superkp » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:01 pm

all it says is... voltage error
says the same error message 1 to 48 times
I will re check all the fuses and wires

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#107 Post by superkp » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:03 pm

I put a volt meter between the two wires that feed solenoid zero voltage?
when I wire the solenoids as they are meant to be wired and hotwire the live, lpg kicks in and runs fine.
its not lumpy like before(I have changed rear solenoid and plunger since last test when it was lumpy)
am I testing for voltage correctly? auto multi meter set on v touch both wires coming from ecu zero volts
or does the engine have to be running on gas to take a reading?

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#108 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:13 pm

The wires to the solenoid will only be live when it is trying to run on gas. You may find that the ECU isn't supplying enough current to pull them in but if you hotwire them there may be enough to hold them in. Plug in spade terminal type fuses often oxidise so you'll get a connection and it will show as 12V with a meter but they are high resistance so the voltage drops as soon as there is any load on it. Often just pulling them out and pushing them back in is enough to sort things for a while. That would explain why you were seeing 12V but the solenoids wouldn't operate, there wasn't enough current getting there. A friend has a convertible Mercedes and the roof stopped working. All that happened was the hydraulic pump grunted then stopped. Everyone told him he needed a new pump at about £500 when all it really needed was the 40A fuse replacing. Showed 12V normally but as soon as it tried to pass current to operate the pump, it was dropping down to about 7V. New fuse and a squirt of contact cleaner in the holder and everything worked as it should.
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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#109 Post by LPGC » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:36 pm

The system reported voltage errors could just be due to the system seeing low voltage during engine cranking, that would be normal. Or could be that the system sees low voltage when it's driving solenoid coils and injectors because it's main power connections (positive and or negative) are not good enough... same issue as Gilbert's example above.
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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#110 Post by superkp » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:48 pm

when hotwired the solenoids have a constant 12v and it runs on gas.
if I hot wire the solenoids without the wires coming from ecu to solenoids. Get it running on gas, should I get a reading from the ecu wires that should be connected to solenoid?

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#111 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:19 pm

Once running on gas you should see 12V from the ECU to the solenoids but, if you have a high resistance somewhere then a meter will show 12V when open circuit with nothing drawing any current but will plummet if you try to draw current. If you do have it running on gas with the solenoids hotwired try hanging a stoplight bulb on the wires from the ECU. I suspect it will try to light dimly and if you check the voltage across it, it will read way lower than 12V.
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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#112 Post by LPGC » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:56 pm

All good advice. Also remember that you can see the voltage that the ECU sees, it's shown on screen. So, if you perform Gilbert's stop light bulb test you can compare the voltage across the stop light with the voltage shown on screen. If there's much difference in voltage readings (say ECU reads above 12v on screen but there's less than 11v across the bulb) it would point to a problem with the wiring running between the ECU and that solenoid or with the ECU's internal relay. If the voltage on screen lowers by much when you connect the stop light bulb it would point to a problem with the ECU's main power connection to battery + and -.##

Regardless, it seems you already have a way of effecting a cure. You could just run another wire to the rear solenoid and use an external relay to switch power to the rear solenoid like I suggested a few pages back.
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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#113 Post by superkp » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:49 am

hi
just to update and thank all who helped
I done voltage test on the ecu to solenoid wires, it read under 5v.
I got the chance to buy a cheap replacement ecu from Poland and thought its worth a risk
I copied all the old settings off damaged ecu set off the calibration and got a nice "calibration was successful" message I took it round the block and it seems ok fingers crossed.
however if I sit and rev the engine it cuts back to petrol and beeps

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#114 Post by Brian_H » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:29 pm

What does the errors in the diagnostics say once its switched back to petrol? It should log a fault of some type. If it doesn't, what does it show in terms of readings for pressure/temp etc?

I would also consider Simon's earlier comment regarding the relay to protect the ecu in future so you don't get back into this state.

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#115 Post by LPGC » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:38 pm

It may be switching back to petrol when you blip the throttle due to low gas pressure... But it's worth checking the errors screen as Bri said.

If it's switching due to low gas pressure the potential problems are: A reducer that isn't up to the job (or gas supply to the reducer from the tank having some restriction), ECU pressure settings set incorrectly, A problem with the map sensor or vacuum plumbing, Being calibrated too rich at high loads.

If you copied all the settings there may not have been the need to calibrate provided you didn't change any of the settings on the old ECU.

Copied all settings including P.Work and P.Min?
What are P.Work and P.Min set at?
What is the gas pressure reading when the engine is idling on gas?
Maybe you could post a screen shot of your map screen with the engine running?

ESGI will generate an error if gas injector pulse duration exceeds window but it won't beep or switch back to petrol when this occurs.
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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#116 Post by superkp » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:05 pm

5 in 1.JPG
5 in 1.JPG (598.67 KiB) Viewed 607 times
hi
i took the car out 40 mile journey and it ran well on gas it never flickered.
i could smell a bit of gas at the front reducer.i have a new one that i will fit soon.
the error says LPG pressure too low.
p work 1.14
p min 0.68

i added photos

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#117 Post by LPGC » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:16 am

It did beep back to petrol because of low gas pressure (when pressure was below p min of 0.68 bar). But that's not surprising because although the ECU's reference pressure is 1.14bar (p work) even at idle the reducer is only providing 0.88 bar.

Try changing p min to 0.45 bar (in software). and increasing actual pressure (i.e. physically at the reducer's pressure adjustment this isn't a change to software settings) to 0.95 bar when the engine is idling on LPG with fully warmed engine. Both these changes will help prevent the beeping back to petrol when you blip the throttle (provided the reducer is capable of flowing enough gas for your engine).

But even when you've prevented the beeping back to petrol your settings/mapping will still be a bit dodgy... I forget what car you've got(?). Seems you're using Valtek type 30 injectors(?). The ECU reference pressure is 1.14 bar but the actual pressure is only 0.88 bar, and the multiplier line in your map is below 1 all the way across the map. It is better to have a multiplier above 1 except perhaps at higher pulse duration (usually above around say 10ms). The pulse duration for gas injectors is based on pulse length of petrol injectors plus/minus pressure compensation (for differences between actual pressure and reference pressure) plus/minus gas temperature compensation (longer pulse for warmer gas and vice/versa). You have a multiplier below 1 which might see gas injectors pulse for shorter duration than petrol injectors (which isn't good because gas injectors don't work well at short pulse duration), except your actual pressure is lower than reference pressure, so gas injector pulse length is increased to compensate for the lower than expected pressure. Even if your settings and map provide correct fuelling it would still be a good idea to set reference pressure (p work) to 0.9 bar and re-calibrate at that pressure... the multiplier will then be higher and the ECU won't have to do as much compensation for pressure... there are a lot of reasons why that is a better situation than having a multiplier of less than 1 with the ECU having to do a pressure correction (all adding up to more accurate fuelling). But don't be tempted to increase actual (reducer) pressure much above 0.9 bar or your V30 injectors will pulse for less duration at idle and this model injector doesn't like pulsing for less than around 4ms... And some model reducers (forget what yours is) tend to output a bit higher pressure when they're warming up than they do when fully warmed.

May even find that your current map doesn't provide correct fuelling, your map screenshot seems to indicate the LPG calibration is lean (correct indication would be green dots overlaying pink dots, where green dots are higher than pink dots it points to lean and vice/versa) but this depends on the software plotting the points properly (which ESGI probably doesn't) and depends on rpm being the same between plotting pink and green dots (and engine fully warmed for both sets of dots) and depends on the engine running closed loop mode when both sets of dots were plotted. Curious that idling on petrol it's reading 3.5ms pinj and 0.36 bar manifold pressure while idling on gas it's reading 3ms pinj and 0.35 bar manifold pressure... If those readings are correct (and again they might not be, could just be due to the ECU supplying different reference voltage to the map sensor and reading pinj incorrectly either or both running on petrol/gas) they would point to either closed loop running with a/some problem petrol injectors on both banks of cylinders or open loop running with slightly richer mixture on gas. Unless this is a car that has or needs a fuel return. ESGI autocal only operates at low pinj and doesn't attempt to change the shape of the map. For good results I'd expect you to need to do some manual calibration work anyway.

Seems your main problem was due to a dodgy ECU internal relay like I suggested in my first post on this thread (post #16).. And you could have sorted the problem for less than a £fiver without buying another ECU from abroad by wiring the solenoids feed through an external slave relay like I suggested shortly after ;-) If the ECU's internal relay is the cause of the initial problem you had (not opening solenoids) then since you read only 5v at the tank solenoid with that ECU (and presumably read around 11v with new ECU) there must be a 6v drop across the old ECU's relay... At 5v the rear solenoid would be flowing around 0.3 amps and presuming the front solenoid was seeing around 6v at the same time that would also be flowing around 0.3/0.4amps. Total 0.6/0.7amps at 6v drop and the relay would become a 3.6watt heater and quickly suffer further damage (I expect it at least looks a bit tarnished inside now) but if it was still working and it only had to flow the 0.1amps to control an external relay it would probably still live a long time.
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superkp
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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#118 Post by superkp » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:07 pm

hi
my car is an audi a6 2.4 v6
it does seem the internal relay was the problem. What put me off doing the relay was how lumpy it ran when hotwired. the ecu I got was less than postage cost and I thought its worth a risk.
the relay thing is something id have to learn, much of the lpg stuff is my first time of doing.

One thing I can say is I learned a lot and can do certain things on my lpg now.
there are not many lpg places where I live and they want me to leave my car .that s fine but most are miles away in the countryside and would be a nightmare to get back home.
I will change the front reducer tomorrow and try a few of or at least the things I understand in LPGCs post .
Im not sure if there is a manual way of adjusting pressure other than the yellow shut off at the tank?

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#119 Post by superkp » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:09 pm

by the way is there a tutorial and list of parts to do a relay to protect the ecu ?

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Re: lpg gauge bottom green light flashing and beeping

#120 Post by Brian_H » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:15 pm

Yellow shut off wants to be left fully open, shutting it would restrict the flow of liquid gas, and won't help you at all. There will be some sort of adjuster on the reducer/vapouriser, typically this is an allen key fitting around the middle of one side or the other. If you can identify your reducer (or post a decent photo or two of it) then someone can probably point you to the right location. Theres little point until you cure the leak though as you will have to adjust it again, and that in itself would indicate the reducer isn't too healthy anyway, so could be the cause of the problem in itself (you can get rebuild kits for most of the available reducers btw)

As far as the relay goes it would be a case of disconnect the original solenoid wiring somewhere up the front, connect both of the solenoids to the front relay on the load side, feed 12v from somewhere to the other side of the load side, and connect the other two contacts to the ground - I would imagine you should be ok to use the ecu provided ground for the solenoid itself, but would suggest you find a decent ground point on the car for the solenoids themselves (somewhere on the car body with good contact to the metal, an existing ground point would be ideal if theres one somewhere suitable).

You might find that because the relay was faulty, that the ecu was getting too hot/having problems supplying voltage to itself due to the faulty relay, so reducing the load it was having to deal with might have got it back to working for some time longer. Either way, you have something your happy with now.

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