MOT Fail

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linsdav8284
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MOT Fail

#1 Post by linsdav8284 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:16 pm

My dear Corsa C had an MOT fail today due to engine management. light being on . The tester laughed when I told him it had been on for 8 years non stop - with no loss of fuel efficiency. The diagnostic fault code is still the same - showing lamda sensor problem.
When this first occurred 8 years ago I in my naivoty took it to a Vauxhall franchise who charged me £85 for the diagnostics and another good fee quid for both sensors to be replaced. So much for that - the light was back on after 30 miles!
The MOT tester today suggested the problem was to do with the lpg system and also suggested stripping it out given its age and just maybe that will cure the light issue .
The car is 14 years old but drives like a dream. Ideally, I would like to sell the car - I would probably only get £350 for it lol but that is a lot more than I would get if I scrapped it . To strip the system out - is it a difficult job and does anything need to be filled in for MOT purposes?

Gilbertd
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Re: MOT Fail

#2 Post by Gilbertd » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:04 pm

Does the light go out when run on petrol? In that case just take it for MoT running on petrol.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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Brian_H
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Re: MOT Fail

#3 Post by Brian_H » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:43 pm

What Gilbert said above, You should find that the lpg system can be effectively disabled by simply removing the fuse from the feed to it (this in most cases will be on the battery positive feed using an inline fuse holder, though that depends on the system fitted). You might need to clear fault codes from the car to clear the light, or might be able to clear it with some driving on petrol. If it doesn't go out when running on petrol then some sort of fault still exists - possibly a wiring fault rather than the actual sensor?

Nothing would be needed for the mot, but to strip it out would involve disconnecting the hoses from the inlet manifold and plugging the holes drilled into it (short bolts work for that), disconnecting the lpg harness from the petrol injectors and rpm feed, possibly some other bits if its a Necam or Koltec system as well, You should technically tell DVLA that its no longer on gas, but that would only be in the case that it was already notified to them as being on gas in the first place. The lpg kit being fitted won't add anything to a sale price though.

Any idea what brand of system it is? if it is the original factory fit necam type then some of them will intercept the lambda sensor and feed it back through another wire, its possible that output either isn't being output, or isn't getting back to where it should do for some reason, in which case it may still present the problem on petrol as well (can you actually see any lambda data when on petrol?)

linsdav8284
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Re: MOT Fail

#4 Post by linsdav8284 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:02 pm

Gilbertd wrote:Does the light go out when run on petrol? In that case just take it for MoT running on petrol.
Thanks for reply Gilbert. No - it has been on permanently for years irrespective of whether it is on gas or petrol.

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Re: MOT Fail

#5 Post by linsdav8284 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:03 pm

Brian_H wrote:What Gilbert said above, You should find that the lpg system can be effectively disabled by simply removing the fuse from the feed to it (this in most cases will be on the battery positive feed using an inline fuse holder, though that depends on the system fitted). You might need to clear fault codes from the car to clear the light, or might be able to clear it with some driving on petrol. If it doesn't go out when running on petrol then some sort of fault still exists - possibly a wiring fault rather than the actual sensor?

Nothing would be needed for the mot, but to strip it out would involve disconnecting the hoses from the inlet manifold and plugging the holes drilled into it (short bolts work for that), disconnecting the lpg harness from the petrol injectors and rpm feed, possibly some other bits if its a Necam or Koltec system as well, You should technically tell DVLA that its no longer on gas, but that would only be in the case that it was already notified to them as being on gas in the first place. The lpg kit being fitted won't add anything to a sale price though.

Any idea what brand of system it is? if it is the original factory fit necam type then some of them will intercept the lambda sensor and feed it back through another wire, its possible that output either isn't being output, or isn't getting back to where it should do for some reason, in which case it may still present the problem on petrol as well (can you actually see any lambda data when on petrol?)

linsdav8284
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Re: MOT Fail

#6 Post by linsdav8284 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:12 pm

linsdav8284 wrote:
Brian_H wrote:What Gilbert said above, You should find that the lpg system can be effectively disabled by simply removing the fuse from the feed to it (this in most cases will be on the battery positive feed using an inline fuse holder, though that depends on the system fitted). You might need to clear fault codes from the car to clear the light, or might be able to clear it with some driving on petrol. If it doesn't go out when running on petrol then some sort of fault still exists - possibly a wiring fault rather than the actual sensor?

Nothing would be needed for the mot, but to strip it out would involve disconnecting the hoses from the inlet manifold and plugging the holes drilled into it (short bolts work for that), disconnecting the lpg harness from the petrol injectors and rpm feed, possibly some other bits if its a Necam or Koltec system as well, You should technically tell DVLA that its no longer on gas, but that would only be in the case that it was already notified to them as being on gas in the first place. The lpg kit being fitted won't add anything to a sale price though.

Any idea what brand of system it is? if it is the original factory fit necam type then some of them will intercept the lambda sensor and feed it back through another wire, its possible that output either isn't being output, or isn't getting back to where it should do for some reason, in which case it may still present the problem on petrol as well (can you actually see any lambda data when on petrol?)

Hello Brian and thanks for expansive reply. The system is an old Landi Renzo fitted in 2004 under the Scottish Executive subsidy scheme. It was in the bad old days when not roo many installers were up to scratch. The company that fitted mine were removed from the regulatory body's approved list - and I was redirected. to a Bulgarian chap in Edinburgh who done an excellent job. To be honest the system is a bit clapped out - the switch has stopped working so I don't know whether I am running or gas or not lol.
I am not a techie person so really haven't a clue. But I would be interested in knowing how to shut off the gas without stripping the system out.

Brian_H
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Re: MOT Fail

#7 Post by Brian_H » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:19 pm

Have a look round the battery for a fuse holder on a wire, pull that fuse out and you should be on petrol. If the landi ecu is hooked into the lambda sensor that might be the source of the problem as they can cause problems. If there isn't a fuse you might have to see if you can trace the wire between battery and landi and disconnect it as long as you don't cut it then you can easily reconnect it.

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Re: MOT Fail

#8 Post by LPGC » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:13 am

A Landirenzo system fitted in 2004 on a Corsa C could be a relatively simple mixer system or a pulsed injection system. If the LPG system caused the MIL to be lit all this time but the car has driven OK on LPG it suggests it is a mixer system.

I understand you don't want to spend any money on it...

Regardless of type of system it would be easy and inexpensive to connect a dashboard mounted bulb or LED in parallel with the reducer solenoid to serve as an indicator that you're running on LPG. When you don't want to run on LPG you could easily pull the fuse.
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DodgeRover
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Re: MOT Fail

#9 Post by DodgeRover » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:44 pm

This is the wrong thing to say but there's no way I would consider stripping out the lpg for a possible solution to the EML light or scrapping an otherwise viable car.
Get the codes read and see what error you have. Get them cleared, run on petrol and see how long it goes before the light comes back on.
Either fix the problem, or buy yourself a bluetooth code reader leave it plugged in and keep hitting clear codes from your phone during the test, or wire the EML light to the oil pressure or alternator warning light!

Gilbertd
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Re: MOT Fail

#10 Post by Gilbertd » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:54 am

DodgeRover wrote:or wire the EML light to the oil pressure or alternator warning light!
How very naughty :o (says the man who stripped an instrument panel out of a car today and stuck a bit of black tape over the SRS light before taking a car in for test......)
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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Re: MOT Fail

#11 Post by DodgeRover » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:26 pm

Lol, someone was pointing out little timer devices for sale on ebay that have adjustable delays so it's not obvious.
As I said though if possible do fix the fault and save the polar bears having to swim as their iceberg melts.

Actually thinking about it if the system has never been looked at could it be far enough out of tune to cause this.

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Re: MOT Fail

#12 Post by LPGC » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:24 pm

Hehe.. I've seen all sorts of tricks done with the MIL light. Even an old time installer who might not have been clued in electronics would still know a Pitagora has a built in timer and even a Pitagora could be re-purposed for this kind of thing. Or a simple delay relay.

If it's a mixer system it could be in tune and still cause the MIL to come on (this could also be true of a sequential system but far less likely true with a sequential system).

SRS light's been lit on my ML for the 3 years I've owned it.. Could be just the usual and easy case of the connection under front seat in need of unplugging and plugging back in again.. shows how much notice I or MOT man took of it.
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Gilbertd
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Re: MOT Fail

#13 Post by Gilbertd » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:35 pm

MoT testers manual, section 7.1.6 (https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/ ... ection_7.1) SRS light on should be an automatic fail. Which is why I resorted to a big of bodgery to get it through the test. It was on a Renault Megane belonging to a friend of my partner and they are known for dodgy connections under the seats. Tried giving them both a dose of contact cleaner first but after that didn't work and I only had an hour before the test was booked, there was only one option left.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Brian_H
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Re: MOT Fail

#14 Post by Brian_H » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:59 pm

Gilbertd wrote:MoT testers manual, section 7.1.6 (https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/ ... ection_7.1) SRS light on should be an automatic fail. Which is why I resorted to a big of bodgery to get it through the test. It was on a Renault Megane belonging to a friend of my partner and they are known for dodgy connections under the seats. Tried giving them both a dose of contact cleaner first but after that didn't work and I only had an hour before the test was booked, there was only one option left.
The French and electrics are not a good combination. I've discovered the latest fault my Espace has now decided to throw up (after the switches in the handbrake failing, reversing light switch, headlamp washers that don't work, Headlight leveling thats leaving the headlights too low, parking sensor that doesn't work and the rain sensing wipers that wipe depending how they feel rather than how heavy the rain might be!) is that the heater fan has stopped working as well.

Least you used tape on the light rather than the bodger that used marker pen on my disco with the ABS light (then resorted to tape when that still showed enough light to light up) - it was actually easier fixing the fault causing the light to come on than taking the clocks out to sort that.

Back to the original topic - If you present for test running on petrol without the light on, that should be enough to get through the test. Your first thing to sort is having some sort of diagnostics access to find out why the light is on, if its anything to do with the lambda sensors try pulling the gas fuse if you can find it and clear the errors, then monitor what happens.

demonicwillow
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Re: MOT Fail

#15 Post by demonicwillow » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:01 am

As some here know I recently had issues with my wj grand cherokee, the check engine light faults were appearing on gas only but whilst parked up trying to fix it two others appeared, one was the output speed sensor and the other was an abs fault, both easily cured with new sensors, its possible the corsa may have an unrelated to engine sensor problem flagging up the eml just as a thought, my check engine light wouldnt go out until I cleared the codes, another issue was an abs fault on my lads vw heap, was a connector under the drivers seat, no amount of contact cleaner would do it so I used some very expensive deoxit which I use to service my reel to reel tape deck and hifi equipment once in a while, did the job, abs lamp goes out now, different system but the principle is the same, check the codes, could be anything in the chain but a good place to start,

Just thought my mrs focus had an annoying eml issue, code reader complaining that the cat wasnt working, o2 sensor fault, local mot place checked the emissions for me, they were spot on, both o2 sensors were ok, but I had recently fitted an aftermarket cat which although was working ok, caused the downstream o2 sensor to similarly mimick the upstream sensor flagging a fault code, once cleared it stayed off for a couple days, thats what got it through the mot :D

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