Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

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madmart
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Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#1 Post by madmart » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:59 pm

My factory 2003 lpg converted Ford transit has started to play up and not run properly if at all on gas and I am guessing it will be easier all round to fit a new front end kit rather than replacing the factory parts ( if I could get them )
Tinley tech do various kits and there are others available on Ebay and other suppliers , a few questions
a) is there much wiring to do ?
b) will I have to redrill the manifold for new injectors ?
c) should I leave the original lpg wiring intact and just plug in to the petrol loom ?
d) Any particular kit that might be more suited for this van
e) any thing else I should look out for ?
Any tips or advice would be gratefully received Thanks in advance

redvanman
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Re: Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#2 Post by redvanman » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:12 pm

Im guessing its a NECAM system at present as I had one fitted to a 1.6 Astra and they are a complex piece of kit. Spares are expensive and hard to find and good advice even harder.
As you have guessed replacement is easier and cheaper and certainly more reliable. With mine all of the old front end system wiring and components were removed, along with the inlet manifold, retained only to copy the injector position.
Removing the old will give insight into fitting the new parts.
With some patience and thought its not too hard. I fitted a KING kit to my van, bought from Tinley Tech and later fitted a 2.0 engine using the same kit.
Tinley Tech gave me good advice but Simon on here is also one to recomend and cheaper.I dare say he will be on here soon.

madmart
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Re: Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#3 Post by madmart » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:59 pm

Yes its the Necam system , loved by all LOL I got as far as taking the gas distributer off but its been on so long the allen key bolts have fused into the aluminium without being able to take that apart properly I decided that its better to just fit a new kit complete .
A new inlet manifold is not going to happen as they are rarer than the Necam parts but I may be able to drill into top of the manifold to fit the new injectors ( hopefully ) and leave the old ones in place suitably blanked off , ts still a working van so do not want it off the road for to long .
How long did the wiring take you ? thats the thing that I see as a big problem hope to hear back from you Cheers Martin

Brian_H
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Re: Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#4 Post by Brian_H » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:20 pm

madmart wrote:Yes its the Necam system , loved by all LOL I got as far as taking the gas distributer off but its been on so long the allen key bolts have fused into the aluminium without being able to take that apart properly I decided that its better to just fit a new kit complete .
A new inlet manifold is not going to happen as they are rarer than the Necam parts but I may be able to drill into top of the manifold to fit the new injectors ( hopefully ) and leave the old ones in place suitably blanked off , ts still a working van so do not want it off the road for to long .
How long did the wiring take you ? thats the thing that I see as a big problem hope to hear back from you Cheers Martin
I did the same thing on a Mondeo that had the EGI system - there are a number of wires that are routed via the lpg system that won't be once your finished - Specifically i found one to the TPS on mine if I remember correctly. But matching those up to the original connections isn't major as they were originally one piece of wire anyway so its just follow the route and match the colours. Wiring wise with a 4 cylinder system your looking at 9 wires to the injector loom, 1 to the coil pack for rpm feed, 3 to goto the tank and front solenoid, 2 more to temp sensor and 1 to the battery (that should be it i think), Rest are modular plugs and should be labelled to make it easy to work out.

I think the original injector break method on mine was the opposite of what you'd do with a sequential system (cut the common positive instead of the negative on each injector) so you may find it easiest when it comes to doing the wiring to remove all the necam bits and put it back to petrol only, check it then runs ok then do the injector breaks afterwards (so you know you haven't done anything thats going to confuse you later!).

With those bolts on the bottom of your distributor (the originals aren't great, almost as soft as chocolate when trying to undo them it seems) you can drill the heads off them fairly easily, once you do that you can remove the lower plate and unscrew them using a pair of pliers. If your at the point of scrapping it otherwise its worth a try, just get some bolts to replace them afterwards. Can you hear relays clicking when its failing to switch? It may be a simple electrical issue (bad connection, dying/dead coil etc) that would be quicker and cheaper to fix than ripping it all off? If your anywhere near Simon it may be worth seeing if you can get him to look at it before condemning it totally (bear in mind also you might want to check its not something like the tank solenoid failing as a new front end won't fix that either).

madmart
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Re: Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#5 Post by madmart » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:10 am

Thanks for that info i did think about the solenoids on the tank but I have 3 tanks and wired up to an on/off switch instead of into the necam system ,
Simon is a bit far from me to be honest but I will be checking the rest out , it is idling on gas just switching back when put under load . Also remember its 15 years old and nearly 300,000 miles so 1 day off the road and £200-300 is probably money well spent

Brian_H
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Re: Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#6 Post by Brian_H » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:34 am

Two things i forgot to mention - on the point of asking about removing the original wiring definitely remove it - it will only make it more difficult to work out whats going on later if you have problems. you can keep the runs to the tank/level senders intact without too much of a problem and just reuse them as long as they aren't the problem (seems your happy they aren't).

When I removed mine I reused 3 of the existing nozzles by running a thread down them (the EGI injectors are not really injectors, just one way valves, remove the black plastic cap and you have a hole straight into the manifold). 4th one i couldn't reuse as it was on the wrong side of the manifold to make pipework easy, just ran a thread down that and put a bolt into it and drilled a fresh hole in a better spot (the size of the egi valve meant it wouldn't fit where you'd expect to put a nozzle).

Provided you use something on the threads (threadlock should be fine), otherwise you have to seal them somehow anyway (As they are too big for the nozzles your fitting). unless you find of course that the current siting isn't going to work.

redvanman
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Re: Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#7 Post by redvanman » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:10 am

Im not a Ford fan much prefering Vauxhall.
Also im a former MOD elec tech and now a Gas Safe htg engineer so the techy side was no problem for me, but your a man who works with your hands so you should find no problems, just use common sense and work at your own speed. Any info you may need can be readily found on here already posted, or if not a quick reply soon comes.

LPGC
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Re: Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#8 Post by LPGC » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:38 pm

You might want to keep the existing tank solenoid wiring and just connect the aftermarket LPG system solenoid live to it, this will make the fuel gauge on the dash show LPG tank level when you're running on LPG same as with the Necam system.

For the rest of the wiring it depends on how involved you want to get, the simplest way is to leave the factory fitted stuff as it is - Transit Necam systems are a bit different to most Necam systems, there are relays under the dash which disconnect petrol injectors, there's no 'black box' lambda emulator as Ford Necam stuff switches the petrol ECU to run open loop (actually open loop - error) mode when running on LPG.
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madmart
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Re: Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#9 Post by madmart » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:34 pm

Hi Simon thanks for getting back to me , I want it as simple as possible really I was thinking of blanking off the necam log switch any way and just carrying on as if not there and even using the existing injectiors if possible
I have 322 litres of gas so the fuel guage is probably not really needed any way
Do you know of any front end kits with as little wiring as possible or anyone else ?

Brian_H
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Re: Replacing Ford transit factory fit front kit

#10 Post by Brian_H » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:13 pm

The KME Nevo is what I used on mine, the wiring on all the sequential systems is going to be pretty much the same as they need to cut off/monitor/control the same things. It took me a couple of hours to do the wiring (both undo the necam wiring which i removed completely, and connect the Nevo, Mine didn't have the fuel gauge on the speedo though, it was a separate one on the switch)

Is that multiple tanks your using (it must be with that capacity?) If so you may wish to put a relay in to control them (use the gas ecu to switch the relay on, the relay to switch all the tanks over)

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