www.ecotecautogas.com

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patnut
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www.ecotecautogas.com

#1 Post by patnut » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:18 pm

Any body have any experiance whith these guys? There prices are very competitive offer a lifetime warranty. They make there own kit dont know how good or reliable it is??

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#2 Post by classicswede » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:07 pm

Looking at there conversion photos the injectors are mostly OMVL and tomasseto reducers. I suspect the ECU will then be a Stag but could be something else. I think we can safely say they do not make their own kit.

The parts will only have a 2 year manufactures warranty at most so when they do disapear that liftime warranty will be no use.

You will not be able to expect a decent conversion by a done in a day outfit.
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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#3 Post by patnut » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:54 am

Thanks Class they told me it was their own kit.. Liars. professautogas who are down your neck of the woods are a one day outfit as you put it aren't they any good?

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#4 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:56 pm

Do a search and make your own mind up.......
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#5 Post by patnut » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:18 pm

Thanks for the usefull post Gilbertd :roll: I mean why bother posting at all?

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#6 Post by carguy143 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:53 pm

Hey Pat. Fancy seeing you on here..

If it helps, i'm coming up to a week in with my profess install and i'm still happy with it. The kit has done about 400miles (maybe more) since fitting, so far so good. I posted in the story section and someone else replied saying they've dealt with a few profess installed cars and they think the conversion jobs are good.

Rik.
Last edited by carguy143 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

patnut
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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#7 Post by patnut » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:27 pm

Hi Rik,

thanks wow you rack up the miles quick. Glad to here that it's still going ok and your happy with it. I just booked my car in with them so hopefully will be reaping the rewards soon. As a mater of interest how much have you spent on gas to achive 400 miles and I understand that it still uses petrol so do you know how much op that you have used also?

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#8 Post by carguy143 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:47 pm

patnut wrote:Hi Rik,

thanks wow you rack up the miles quick. Glad to here that it's still going ok and your happy with it. I just booked my car in with them so hopefully will be reaping the rewards soon. As a mater of interest how much have you spent on gas to achive 400 miles and I understand that it still uses petrol so do you know how much op that you have used also?
Profess apparantly filled the tank before testing/driving the car back to me (they did roughly 300 miles in total with testing and driving the car back to me). I then added approx 50 litres to the tank on sunday and i am now currently racking up the miles to work out my MPG and range. It cost me roughly £35 for the approx 50 litres of gas. As for petrol, my fuel gauge hasn't moved much, if any. The car switched to gas this morning after about half a mile, if that. When warm it'll switch to gas in a matter of seconds.

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#9 Post by Gilbertd » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:01 pm

patnut wrote:Thanks for the usefull post Gilbertd :roll: I mean why bother posting at all?
A forum search for Profess comes up with 137 mentions, only a few from happy customers, most are from people still trying to get their systems to work properly after Profess have washed their hands of them. You could have done the same search and wouldn't have needed to ask the question. Although not an LPG installer I am a professional engineer and would state that it is impossible to properly install and set up an LPG system in a day. I'm not alone in this view and you'll find that most of the professional installers on here will tell you the same.

Hopefully you don't have a performance car and will be one of the Profess customers that aren't on here trying to find out why it doesn't work as it should.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#10 Post by RobTheShirt » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:36 pm

Gilbertd wrote:
patnut wrote:Thanks for the usefull post Gilbertd :roll: I mean why bother posting at all?
A forum search for Profess comes up with 137 mentions, only a few from happy customers, most are from people still trying to get their systems to work properly after Profess have washed their hands of them. You could have done the same search and wouldn't have needed to ask the question. Although not an LPG installer I am a professional engineer and would state that it is impossible to properly install and set up an LPG system in a day. I'm not alone in this view and you'll find that most of the professional installers on here will tell you the same.

Hopefully you don't have a performance car and will be one of the Profess customers that aren't on here trying to find out why it doesn't work as it should.
Actually, most of the negative posts on here about Profess come from disgruntled installers who begrudge their success.
They installed mine 3 years ago, saved me a fortune on the bloated quotes of other installers and it's still going strong and steady.
Go for it Patnut.

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#11 Post by Tubbs » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Tbh, i think its a bit hit and miss with them, i have to say that I've seen some pretty good work from them and some absolute shockers. Mind you, you have to think why i have seen quite a few profess installs don't you, as I'm no where near them. Its generally because the customer has got bored of trying to get the problems sorted. Or the warranty has run out and they have a running fault. Some quite simple like injector wear, duff components or just bad mapping initially.
The components are pretty cheap though i have to say. When you say bloated prices Rob what do you mean ?
I charge £995 for a 4 cylinder, £1250 for a, £1350 for a v8. Thats with a full tank of gas, and UKLPGA registration. And with good quality components, i could slim it down even more if i used alaska reducers, valtek 30's and a stag......

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#12 Post by RobTheShirt » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:07 pm

Tubbs wrote:Tbh, i think its a bit hit and miss with them, i have to say that I've seen some pretty good work from them and some absolute shockers. Mind you, you have to think why i have seen quite a few profess installs don't you, as I'm no where near them. Its generally because the customer has got bored of trying to get the problems sorted. Or the warranty has run out and they have a running fault. Some quite simple like injector wear, duff components or just bad mapping initially.
The components are pretty cheap though i have to say. When you say bloated prices Rob what do you mean ?
I charge £995 for a 4 cylinder, £1250 for a, £1350 for a v8. Thats with a full tank of gas, and UKLPGA registration. And with good quality components, i could slim it down even more if i used alaska reducers, valtek 30's and a stag......
It's not what you are charging now but what you were probably asking 3 years ago.
At the time, the best quote I could get locally was certainly over £1800 (and they've gone out of business since ) and a couple were over £2000.
IMHO the major reason for the steep decline in prices (and profit) is down to Profess who proved to many ordinary people like myself without gas guzzling performance cars that we didn't need to pay an arm & a leg to get converted.
Even though my warranty is now finished, I can still get advice and help from them if needed and only recently I had a tune up done remotely via my laptop when I couldn't get it to connect myself. Charge? Nothing.
Profess have a forum on their website which, judging by the comments on this site, should be overflowing with complaints. Check it out. None on there, though of course the doomsayers will tell us that any complaints will have been removed.
There have been too many contributors to this forum who spend their time slagging off other people, esp. Profess but disappear without ever providing an ounce of positive assistance for anyone else.
On the other hand, I have always been impressed by your positive comments and help on this forum and were I in your part of the country or was asked to recommend someone, I would advise/use you. I think that the extra cost would probably be worthwhile. I can recognise good service when I see it.

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#13 Post by LPGC » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:58 am

There are some vehicles that are less demanding in terms of components and/or other aspects of the installation (such as getting injector nozzles in the right place etc).

Some vehicles are less demanding on the installer in terms of work involved to convert them - Some are much easier / much harder to mount components, do pipe runs, etc than others. The easier vehicles to work on take less hours to do a proper job on.

Put together, the above points could be considered to add up to how demanding a certain vehicle is to convert. If a firm is fitting the same components on all vehicles with no regard for the spec of the vehicle, they will have problems. If they do 10 cars no problem with little regard for getting nozzle placement correct for example, then the 11th car is more demanding on nozzle placement, they may have problems with the demanding one. Most installers could convert certain easily converted models of vehicle in a day, but most installers are wise enough not to hold themselves to that timescale and not to say they could convert any vehicle in one day.

If a done in a day firm sticks to the policy of getting a car done in a day as a priority and a demanding vehicle comes in for conversion, it might be they will have less time to think about ensuring the installation is going to be neat if they are going to get all the necessary work done to get the vehicle running on LPG. Or they might take up too much time ensuring a neat install at the expense of technical correctness. I do see these sorts of compromises from the done in a day guys, and particularly on the vehicles most installers would consider more demanding / time consuming than other vehicles.

Someone has proposed an analogy on this thread that having several people converting a vehicle to LPG is akin to having several builders building a house but this analogy is not a good one. When building a house, builders work to a plan, are under supervision from an engineer who has the plans, and they can lay bricks to build a wall all at the same time assured that it will all work out OK. Converting a vehicle to LPG you could certainly have one guy installing the tank and filling point and another guy installing the engine components, but that's where the advantage of multiple persons working on the same vehicle ends, with two guys. If you have two guys working on the engine, one guy might decide to fit a reducer in one location and orientation, another guy might decide to fit injectors in a certain location and orientation, another guy might decide to fit the ECU in the same location as the reducer guy... There is no engineer to supervise and no specific plan even if there was an engineer. I may be criticised for the last points 'no plan no engineer' but this is true - There are a great many models of vehicle and different installer people might convert each model differently even with the same components. There are too many makes and models of vehicle to know, when working with a mate, what your mates ideas for converting that vehicle are even with the same components. On an LPG conversion, how these components are piped / wired / placed / where injector nozzles are positioned can all make or break an installation and not considering everything at the same time can certainly make for an untidy installation. A good installer considers where all the components will go, pipe runs, wire runs, etc, all at the same time. People working together to convert a vehicle can talk to each other but are not telepathic - To do a good install working together in this way they'd need to be telepathic, or spend most of the time talking, which would to a large extent negate the advantage to having multiple people working on the vehicle (except for one guy doing the back end and one guy doing the front end). But even then, they need to talk before doing anything - pipe run between tank and engine bay / wire run between tank and engine bay. To a good installer, and this is just one example, the pipe run / wire run may swing the decision on where to mount a reducer or ecu.

Example of a problem that is down to kit regardless of installer: If Valtek injectors are fitted on a turbo'd engine with 2.3ms to 16ms injector range, that vehicle is likely to have a problem, because Valtek won't like low injection times and low injection times (due to nozzle size and pressure combination) would be needed to be able to inject enough gas at high load without running lean. Some firms (mentioned on this thread) only fit Stag ECU's, which cannot do petrol addition in the event incorrect components are chosen that would require petrol addition. To get around the low injection duration issue with Valtek injectors they could lower pressure or reduce nozzle size, but this would make the top end fueling lean for sure - and the only option in Stag is to switch fully back to petrol after a certain rpm or 'calculated' engine load. I wouldn't fit such a system on a technically demanding engine. A firm mentioned has a one kit fits all policy - such policies will always have problems on certain vehicles. By certain vehicles, I mean a long list of a wide range of vehicles... Vehicles that are more likely to come to other installers after the done in a day guys start making excuses when they can't get the car to run properly after repeated attempts.

I have repaired and/or put right many issues from done in a day guys. Very often, they can be rectified with minor adjustments. I have drilled many nozzles out on injectors where the installer must have known it should have been done but hadn't bothered to do it. I have secured many injector rails and ECUs properly. I have correctly mapped many systems, most of which have obviously been left with basic autocal maps and little or no time spent by the installer to do a proper map. I have been dismayed at the lack of thought that has gone into pipe / wire runs and the potential problems that these issues invite. I have corrected many similar issues to the above where vehicle owners have had their vehicles converted on the continent.

The people that write about how happy they are with their done in a day conversions are comparing their installation to (what)? If they knew nothing at all about cars they might presume an Allegro, is a car, is just as good as a BMW, is also a car. Just because they haven't had any problems doesn't mean they have a good install and certainly doesn't mean it could have been done better with a bit more thought and/or time and/or different components. It doesn't mean that because their vehicle seemingly runs great on LPG they won't burn out their engine valves next time they tow their caravan and it doesn't mean it's running as smoothly as it could. How do the installers that only hype / install / repair and only know that one system know their system is a good one? What, in their working day, do they have opportunity to compare that system to? So how can they say it is good? How can they say it will suit any specific vehicle better than a different system?

Some people say installers that think the done in a day guys do a bad job are jealous of their success - I don't do cars in a day, I would like to be as busy and rich as the owners of some done in a day installation business'... but I have nothing to be jealous about regarding their knowledge, expertise, customer service, customer satisfaction or my sense of pride in my work.

It is interesting that some done in a day companies have their own forums on their website - as installers we get to repair a lot of their installs from their disgruntled customers, yet we only ever see positive comments on their private forums, or comments along the lines of 'had a minor problem but the company sorted it in record time and bought me dinner for my troubles'.

Simon
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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#14 Post by Gilbertd » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:56 am

Simon, for once, I applaud you and agree with everything you have said but would add one more point. How many people drive their cars to the limit with any regularity? It would be quite possible to convert a 250 bhp car with a system that is only capable of providing enough fuel for 200 bhp. It would run perfectly OK for 99% of the time but would either switch back to petrol, cause the mixture to go lean or simply not produce the power at the top end. Some people would accept that this is just a 'feature' of an LPG conversion. A lot of people think that you will get less power when running on LPG anyway so accept this as normal when it actually isn't and it is possible to convert a car so that it runs exactly the same no matter what fuel it is on.

People usually convert to save money on fuel so the mindset of that person may be that they drive for economy anyway. That wouldn't put a conversion under any stress. Others, convert to allow them to utilise the full performance of their car without it costing them a fortune when the fuel consumption drops to single figures. I would argue that mainly those people are the enthusiasts who would research the conversion and not go with the done in a day converters anyway. In the middle are those that want to use the performance but don't have the understanding of how the system works and what limitations it may have. They are the ones that will say, "Oh, I switch back to petrol when I want to overtake" not realising that the reason they need to do this isn't an inherent limitation of running on gas but a weakness in the particular system that has been fitted.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#15 Post by Tubbs » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:56 am

It constantly amazes me with what the general public will put up with for half price fuel. I had on the other day on one of my own installs. You don't hear a peep for ages, then they ring you for a service. First thing you ask is 'hows it running?' and they say 'ok but every now and then the idle dips when you pull up to a junction' so you change filters, plug in laptop 2 mins later its all sorted. So you ask 'how long has it been like that ?' to which they reply 'oh, a few months' which beggars the question 'why didn't you ring me ?'
Generally the answer is I've been too busy, didn't want to bother you, knew it was due its 10k service, and its saving me a packet, i can live with it..
So you know the customer is telling all his mates its saving him a packet but the idle is a bit fluffy occasionally. Its just not a good advertisement for LPG. Let alone me. But you cant be telepathic and you do expect them to ring if they do have a problem.

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#16 Post by classicswede » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:41 am

RobTheShirt wrote: Profess have a forum on their website which, judging by the comments on this site, should be overflowing with complaints. Check it out. None on there, though of course the doomsayers will tell us that any complaints will have been removed.
.
Have you kept upto date with that forum? I found it a while ago and was also supprised how fe complaints were on there. After tracking things for a while I did notice that a number of theads were being removed. Also to be fair if you have a problem your first post of call would be to pick up the phone or email rather than post up on a forum.
They do have happy customers. There is a local family to me who have had a number of cars converted by them. All of which have some minor faults. I've sorted these little issues out and am now on my second conversion for them. The are happy with Profess and were not realy bothered about any of the problems.
LPGC wrote:
I have repaired and/or put right many issues from done in a day guys....... , most of which have obviously been left with basic autocal maps and little or no time spent by the installer to do a proper map.

Simon
LPGC
Now this is a real grumble I have, the family I mentioned above each car I have looked at for them had clearly not been mapped in the slightest other then the calibration at idle. Non of them had the injector nozzles drilled out to size but had been left as supplied. I asked them if they knew how the car had been setup "oh yes I waited around while they were doing and and connected the computer in the workshop and ran the engine for a while. After that I paid up took the keys and drove home"

Now I know a lot of the basic cars you can actualy get away with this on but I would never ever consider sending a car out without driving it!
http://www.classicswede.com/
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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#17 Post by LPGC » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:58 pm

Thanks Gilbertd, A first time for everything eh. :lol:

Agreed with Gilbertd, Tubbs and Classicswede (maybe others but people I listed have wrote since my last post).

Hesitated before writing this line as don't want to seem against Tubbs point or for this to be interpreted as making a petty point - Personally I don't usually change filters (unless they're due) when there's a tickover issue, line of thinking filters will effect top end characteristics first, unless working on a system with pressure sensor on reducer itself. Just included this as would be interesting to know other pros procedures.

Simon
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Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#18 Post by Gilbertd » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:02 pm

If you read Tubbs post again, you'd see that the car was bought in for service but the customer just happened to mention that it wasn't quite right. In that case, doing the service first would be the logical way of doing it in case the service cured the problem (unlikely I know, but best make sure everything is right first). The point is that the customer didn't report the problem as soon as it occurred but waited until it was due a service. I suppose it's the nature of things. If it didn't run right on petrol, he'd complain but as he's saving so much money running on gas, he's prepared to put up with things not being quite right.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#19 Post by LPGC » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:38 pm

Gilbertd wrote:If you read Tubbs post again, you'd see that the car was bought in for service but the customer just happened to mention that it wasn't quite right. In that case, doing the service first would be the logical way of doing it in case the service cured the problem (unlikely I know, but best make sure everything is right first). The point is that the customer didn't report the problem as soon as it occurred but waited until it was due a service. I suppose it's the nature of things. If it didn't run right on petrol, he'd complain but as he's saving so much money running on gas, he's prepared to put up with things not being quite right.
Point taken but the customer phoned about asking for a service, I wasn't sure the customer thought it was due a service (preventative maintenance) or asked for a service because of the issue. I always think it strange - When people have an issue with an LPG system they usually phone asking 'how much for an LPG service'. If those same people had a problem with running on petrol they probably wouldn't go to a garage asking to have their car 'serviced', they'd go to the garage asking 'can you tell me what's wrong with it, how much to fix it'. They might expect to pay a small labour fee to find the fault but wouldn't expect to pay for a filters change unless the issue was at least possibly related to filters. On the other hand there are LPG installers near me who charge for a filters change 'service' every time a customer takes a car in with an LPG issue, even when the issue is obviously not related to filters. Owners of LPG vehicles have told me they've been charged for a filters change by these firms even when (extreme but true example) there's no lights on the switch...To anyone else reading this, Tubbs isn't one of those installers near me.

'Fixed' a system the other day, customer had been to two installers first, one in Leeds, one in Castleford, both installers said they couldn't fix the system because they didn't have the interface (was a very unpopular system). The briefest of looks and I saw the power feed had obviously broken off the battery.. One of the installers charged him for having a look, don't know how they missed the problem. 5 second freebie. Customer should have been pleased he didn't get much further, not far from me (going by many reports) he'd have been charged £80 for a few minutes and told you need a new system mate, maybe driving off filters changed but likely not working :lol:
Full time LPG installer
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Mid Yorkshire
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Re: www.ecotecautogas.com

#20 Post by Tubbs » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:18 pm

Sorry, my point may have been slightly misconstrued. I know that filters would have done bugger all for an idle issue. But they needed doing so i changed them before connecting up the computer. As it was 'in for a service', i thought i better do as was stated on the tin :lol:
Just to make it clear, whilst i was doing the service he reported the idle issue.

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