stepper and ECU for single pt system

[Pinger]

Having now got a 175 loom in front of me I can tell you exactly were each wire goes.

From your first pic

Orange -> Stepper
White -> Stepper
Pink -> Diagnostic Socket
White/Red -> Diagnostic Socket
Blue -> Main output to solenoids
Yellow ->The NO relay contacts
Yellow -> The NO relay contacts
Red -> Ignition switched live
Red/Black -> Permanent live

From your second pic

Black ->
Brown ->
Unused hole
Orange (not there on my loom) -> Temperature sensor (although never connected by anyone)
Blue/Yellow -> TPS
Purple -> Lambda sensor input (usually just Tee'd into the lambda sensor signal wire)
Grey -> Lambda sensor output (not used if Purple is Tee'd)
Black -> Diagnostic socket
Pink/Black -> Diagnostic socket
Pale Blue -> Stepper
Violet -> Stepper

Then there is the other 14 way plug with only 6 ways used
Red -> Changeover switch
Black -> Changeover switch
Brown -> Changeover switch
Blue -> Changeover switch
Green -> Tank level sender
White -> Tank level sender

Thanks Gilbertd - exactly as I found them.

That should be enough to work out what needs connecting to what to make up an interface once you have some pins (I'll walk down to the post office in a few minutes....).

and you posted while I was doing this. I'll leave it, it may come in useful for someone else.....

I have 10 spare pins anyway so yes, donate them to someone more in need.

[Pinger]

Next is to ascertain if the connector lead with the Supaseal on one end and the 9 hole (5&4) old computer style connector is AEB 170 compatible.

After talking to WTV-UK the lead I referred to is AEB 170 Gal compatible - see photo below.

IMG_5310.JPG (1018.62 KiB) Viewed 4911 times

It was supplied with my diagnostic/programming lead ordered for AEB 175 and was unused until now as the Molex one was the one used for AEB 175. Maybe, when you guys bought your lead you were supplied with one also.

[Pinger]

Happy to report I'm all done - bar firing up the engine on Galileo - which can wait. In essence, I'm at the stage where I can just plug the AEB 170 Gal into my existing truck mounted loom, change the stepper, and it should work. From there there's only the changeover switch to decide on (probably change to AEB 170 as the 'start on gas' facility is a 5 seconds press on a momentary switch - which the AEB 175 toggle switch may or may not accomplish) and maybe shorten the wiring from the AEB 170 ECU for a permanent installation. As it is, there's nothing stopping the engine running if I plug it all in as far as I can see.

Quick summary of what I did.
The main multiplug - see earlier link for source and it is straightforward to wire. I soldered the pins to the wires (supposedly they should be crimped with the 'correct' crimping tool I don't have). The multiplug (and associated pins) is the only item I'd deem absolutely essential to enable a plug-n-play set up.

I wired the white and green tank gauge wires into a 14 way Molex though - especially if using the AEB 170 changeover switch - cutting them free from the loom Molex and connecting them to the AEB 170 ECU loom would be just as easy.

Changeover switch is already accommodated for if using the new one.

That only leaves the diagnostic/programming and if you already have the short lead then you're sorted. If not and you have build a lead I can provide pin-outs based on the two short leads I have (from the trapezoidal shaped 9 hole connector to the 4 way Superseal). I have a few spare Superseal connectors and 14 way Molexes - pm me a postal address if you want one of each.

All pretty straightforward then - after the initial 'too many unaccounted for wires' panic that is!

[Gilbertd]

I'll be interested in how it works (or doesn't). I found the correct connector on RS so have everything to make up an adapter lead for mine too. My diagnostic cable is different to yours as it just has the 8 way Molex on the end so I need to find out which wire goes to which pin on the Supaseal one.

[Pinger]

I'll be interested in how it works (or doesn't).

I'm not sure exactly what I intend to do with the AEB 170. As it stands, it should plug straight into my truck (along with change of stepper) and the engine run - so I have a spare should my AEB 175 ECU or stepper fail. I'll probably get the engine running on it (to further that objective) and maybe drive on it. If it drives better than with the AEB 175 then installing it permanently is the obvious course to take. If not, then hold as a spare or, utilise on the basis it is newer - rather than wait for 20 year old components to fail. For now, getting the petrol system working again is the higher priority.

I found the correct connector on RS so have everything to make up an adapter lead for mine too. My diagnostic cable is different to yours as it just has the 8 way Molex on the end so I need to find out which wire goes to which pin on the Supaseal one.

When I bought my cable it came with the Molex connector (same as yours) and one with the Superseal connector. Are you sure you weren't supplied with both?
In further conversation with WTV-UK, they have supplied both with the AEB cable for 20 years.
They also offer the following:

!cid_part1_WHE5MbvA_oL3qLDLd@aol.jpg (128.49 KiB) Viewed 4891 times

''If anyone needs the Super-seal plug adapter I can supply it it plugs into there interfaces 8 pin plug 1 = £14.99 including delivery within the UK''

Adaptors available without having to buy the complete lead then.
For anyone constructing a lead with the serial(?) connector on one end and the Superseal on the other, I should be able to provide pin-outs for that.

[Gilbertd]

Fifteen quid for 2 plugs and a few inches of wire? They are having a laugh. However, that picture tells me what I need to know (assuming the used pins on the Molex are on the top row) so I can just follow the colours. My lead didn't come from WTV (I don't actually remember where it came from but I bought it about 16 years ago).

My plan is to have the 170 with an adapter cable on it fitted to the car, calibrated and programmed so it runs the car. Then I will take it off, plug the 175 back in and put the 170 in the boot. That way, should I ever have a failure of the 175 while miles away from home (often in a country where LPG is under 45p a litre so I don't want to have to run on petrol), I can unplug one, plug the other in and carry on. Unless I find it runs better or uses less fuel on the 170, then I will leave it on with the 175 as the standby.

[Pinger]

Fifteen quid for 2 plugs and a few inches of wire? They are having a laugh.

In fairness, when you tot up the time spent sourcing the parts and then assembling I doubt that it can be done for less if we allocate an hourly rate to our endeavours. For anyone lacking the assembly skills, it's a viable option.

However, that picture tells me what I need to know (assuming the used pins on the Molex are on the top row) so I can just follow the colours. My lead didn't come from WTV (I don't actually remember where it came from but I bought it about 16 years ago).

Alternatively use the serial(?) connector (as per the one I have) and I can provide exact pin-out info. PM me a postal address if you want a Superseal connector (ditto Brian-H and LPGC).

My plan is to have the 170 with an adapter cable on it fitted to the car, calibrated and programmed so it runs the car. Then I will take it off, plug the 175 back in and put the 170 in the boot. That way, should I ever have a failure of the 175 while miles away from home (often in a country where LPG is under 45p a litre so I don't want to have to run on petrol), I can unplug one, plug the other in and carry on. Unless I find it runs better or uses less fuel on the 170, then I will leave it on with the 175 as the standby.

We are on exactly the same page there. The only difference is that (if allocated as a spare) mine will stay at home (I'm never so far from home as you are).

[Gilbertd]

Alternatively use the serial(?) connector (as per the one I have) and I can provide exact pin-out info. PM me a postal address if you want a Superseal connector (ditto Brian-H and LPGC).

Mine doesn't have the serial style connector on the end (I think only the WTV ones have that so you can fit different ends to suit different systems). It has the Molex connector on one end to connect to the diagnostic socket, a short length of cable to a plastic box with the interface in it and a long cable with a 9 pin serial plug to go into the serial port on the laptop. So I will need an 8 way Molex of the correct gender to connect to my diagnostic plug to a 4 way Supaseal to connect to the 170 diagnostic port.

[Pinger]

Alternatively use the serial(?) connector (as per the one I have) and I can provide exact pin-out info. PM me a postal address if you want a Superseal connector (ditto Brian-H and LPGC).

Mine doesn't have the serial style connector on the end (I think only the WTV ones have that so you can fit different ends to suit different systems). It has the Molex connector on one end to connect to the diagnostic socket, a short length of cable to a plastic box with the interface in it and a long cable with a 9 pin serial plug to go into the serial port on the laptop. So I will need an 8 way Molex of the correct gender to connect to my diagnostic plug to a 4 way Supaseal to connect to the 170 diagnostic port.

OK, I get it now. That's quite a bit different from my (USB) lead.
I can see now why the lead I posted a photo of with the 8 way Molex is what you need to base your lead on. If, you aren't absolutely sure of the orientation of that plug re which row the wires are in, can you not wire both rows (pairing the wires of the same colour) and it will work either way up?

[Gilbertd]

The Molex plugs and sockets are keyed so it will only go in one way so I can only wire the 4 holes that are being used. I can see that the Supaseal plug goes Brown, White, Green, Yellow and the Molex would go White, Brown, Yellow, Green if the wires are in the top row but if they are the bottom row it would go Green, Yellow, Brown, White. The wire colours on my cable are different (different manufacturer) so they are no help.

It would appear that the plug used on the 175 diagnostic is one of these https://www.molex.com/molex/products/pa ... 0039013089 with the pins in the top row. So if the pic you have posted of the incompatible systems interface cable (bodge cable) is showing the top row in use, the Green will be top left pin. However, if it is the bottom row in use, the White one will be top left.

[Pinger]

The Molex plugs and sockets are keyed so it will only go in one way so I can only wire the 4 holes that are being used. I can see that the Supaseal plug goes Brown, White, Green, Yellow and the Molex would go White, Brown, Yellow, Green if the wires are in the top row but if they are the bottom row it would go Green, Yellow, Brown, White. The wire colours on my cable are different (different manufacturer) so they are no help.

It would appear that the plug used on the 175 diagnostic is one of these https://www.molex.com/molex/products/pa ... 0039013089 with the pins in the top row. So if the pic you have posted of the incompatible systems interface cable (bodge cable) is showing the top row in use, the Green will be top left pin. However, if it is the bottom row in use, the White one will be top left.

What you've described is the wire positions being diagonally opposite and what I'm suggesting is wire all 8 as such (pairing them before the Superseal).
The alternative is assume which row is the active one (50:50 chance if a pure guess) and wire it accordingly being prepared to re-do it if it's the other row. Wiring all 8 as I suggest covers both eventualities - albeit with the additional complication of having to splice pairs together. Either method will work.

I can probably still work out the wiring you need. If I open up both of my leads at the serial(?) connector I can note the positions of the wires within and correlate their positions in the Superseal with respect to their position in the Molex. Yes?

[Gilbertd]

As I've got a spare 175 loom I can see which pins are used so can get that bit right.

How can wiring a 4 pin plug to a 4 pin plug get so complicated?

[Brian_H]

The photo I posted of the WTV box shows the pinout? Between that and the photo from Pinger of the adaptor that should give the needed info?

FYI not sure sure if you realise Pinger, but you can't use those WTV adaptor cables just into a serial port, you need that black box or the usb lead to go with it, depending which version you have got of their cable. I brought one of the 10 in 1 sets ages ago when the whole lot was around £50. I've also got another AEB lead of some description that I think was what I used when I wanted to check the ECU I'd got was working etc, so I've definitely got a lead that works here somewhere. My main vehicles now both use KME hardware so its a different lead for those.

[Pinger]

The photo I posted of the WTV box shows the pinout?

Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't make sense of it. It shows wires with colours: Black; Red; Green; Yellow. The Molex I have has colours: Green; Yellow; Brown; White.

Between that and the photo from Pinger of the adaptor that should give the needed info?

It's still a guessing game as to which way up that Molex is. It's not entirely clear in the photo.

FYI not sure sure if you realise Pinger, but you can't use those WTV adaptor cables just into a serial port, you need that black box or the usb lead to go with it, depending which version you have got of their cable. I brought one of the 10 in 1 sets ages ago when the whole lot was around £50. I've also got another AEB lead of some description that I think was what I used when I wanted to check the ECU I'd got was working etc, so I've definitely got a lead that works here somewhere. My main vehicles now both use KME hardware so its a different lead for those.

My terminology may be off here. The connector I refer to as 'serial' is the trapezoidal shaped connector with 9 connections (one row of 5, other row of 4) that on mine I connect either the short lead with the Molex or, the other one with the Superseal. What they connect to is the 'black box'.The other end of the cable is USB - though I understand that Gilbertd's is serial where it connects to lap top. See photo below for my cable and adaptor leads.

IMG_5311.JPG (1.26 MiB) Viewed 4805 times

[Brian_H]

Your terminology is fine - WTV really shouldn't have used the connector they have as it is the same connector as the standard serial one on a pc (DB9 if you want to be specific) but the signals and voltages carried on it are not standard serial (RS232) standard.

If you look at the Landi Renzo pinout, that is AEB superseal. Ignore the colours shown on the box but look at the K/L/+/- shown, that will tell you what the convertor needs to connect from on each side (just make sure you have the connector flipped around the right way when your looking at the diagram!) The other one should be the Bingo/Leo/Milenium labelled one?

Pinout should be the view from looking into the connector so you can see the pins rather than the wires. The thick bit of line near the plus on the molex connector would be the bit with the latch. The superseal you should be able to figure out from the two locating lugs shown in the image, I think you've got the clip facing the bottom side in that case? (I don't have mine to hand right now to check it else I'd look for you)

[Pinger]

If you look at the Landi Renzo pinout, that is AEB superseal. Ignore the colours shown on the box but look at the K/L/+/- shown, that will tell you what the convertor needs to connect from on each side (just make sure you have the connector flipped around the right way when your looking at the diagram!) The other one should be the Bingo/Leo/Milenium labelled one?

My 'Plug 4' which WTV-UK assure me is the correct lead for AEB 170 doesn't correspond to that. The K and L are fine but the +ve and -ve are reversed. See photo below. Plugs are orientated as per the diagram ie, live row in Molex is to the bottom as is the tang on the Superseal connector. Unless the wires are connected to different pins in the 'serial' connector then two of the wires correspond to the diagram and two don't. Totally confused now!

IMG_5312.JPG (2.55 MiB) Viewed 4782 times

[Gilbertd]

Totally confused now!

Glad I'm not the only one......

[Brian_H]

Only answer I can see to that is that they haven't consistantly used the same colour wires? Multimeter buzz out would tell you that. Long as it works doesn't matter for you as you have both options there anyway?

Plug 4 defintiely works for Landi Renzo Omegas - As thats the lead I've got, that is standard AEB (well the ecu is at least, the rest of the Landi setup is anything but standard) and fairly sure I used that same plug 4 for the the AEB 170 when I bench tested it as well so I'd agree its the right adaptor.

[LPGC]

WTV interface bundles (with end cables to suit various LPG ECUs) came with a CD Rom with various LPG software on it. Also on that CD Rom there's tabulated info on which end connectors suit which LPG system ECUs and a picture of all the different end connectors. We can use that info (the tables and the picture of the end connectors) to compare how end connectors for different systems are wired up and/or to make our own adapters. You need to zoom in on the picture of the end connectors to see the plug number (end connector number) and see the wire colours.

Here's the picture of the WTV end connectors


Table of which end connectors suit which LPG ECUs for plugs / end connectors 1 >7


Table of which end connectors suit which LPG ECUs for plugs / end connectors 7 >


Example (that's not related to your concern of getting from adapter 1 to adapter 4)... Adapter 4 is the Superseal end connector that suits most AEB based systems. Adapter 8 is the Superseal end connector that suits most none AEB based systems (e.g. Stag and KME). By comparing the wiring colours between adapter 4 and adapter 8 we can see that only the 2 middle wires are crossed over, the wires at the ends (the live and ground wires) are in the same positions.

Based on the above info it should be easy to make an adapter to get from any one type to any other type regardless of Molex or Superseal.

By far the most popular connections are plug 1 for Molex and plug 4 for Superseal.. and in the majority of cases using the wrong plug for the wrong system won't cause a problem (it will just result in no coms). But there are a few systems for which using the wrong plug will cause reverse polarity on the power pins (e.g. using plug 8 when plug 9 should be used or vice/versa) which will cause problems. There are a few modern systems not listed in WTV's table that have plugs wired like plug 9.

[Pinger]

My 'Plug 4' which WTV-UK assure me is the correct lead for AEB 170 doesn't correspond to that. The K and L are fine but the +ve and -ve are reversed. See photo below. Plugs are orientated as per the diagram ie, live row in Molex is to the bottom as is the tang on the Superseal connector. Unless the wires are connected to different pins in the 'serial' connector then two of the wires correspond to the diagram and two don't. Totally confused now!

And that is how it is. The wires are connected to different pins in the 'serial' connector. From the outside looking at the colour of the wires the yellow and brown wires appear 'swapped' but are correct for how they connect within the 'serial' connector. Plug 4 is the correct one.