Strange behaviour with romano N system

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classicswede · #21 Post by **classicswede** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:50 pm

John you are spot on the screens are all the same with a few little differeces. Most of which you can not see. Mike

oilburner · #24 Post by **oilburner** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:05 pm

it didnt cost £2600 for the conversion it cost £2100 the other £500 was for replacing the coil pack plug leads lambda idle control valve etc.

steve_96 · #25 Post by **steve_96** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:52 am

David, I really don't think that changing the injectors for the later type is going to cure your problem (unless the wrong sizes are fitted). It would be unwise to throw a bundle of cash at it and find it was wasted. The best course for you IMHO is to have it looked at by another Romano APPROVED installer or invest in a visit to AGWW themselves. Regards Steve <a href="http://www.go-lpg.co.uk" target=_top>www.go-lpg.co.uk</a> Romano and OMVL approved installers

oilburner · #26 Post by **oilburner** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:59 pm

thanks steve for the advice if i ring anybody up to have a look it will be you even though its a fair distance from me. on the plus side i had another go at setting the car up today (i havnt been bothered with it for a while as it has been getting on my nerves a bit) i auto callibrated it and without any on the road tweaking it would idle ok ish and drive more or less without any problems. but the next day from cold back to same old lumpy running and cutting out on idle.so i had another go and i found that the reducer temp is rising steadily but the gas temp is not it is staying at 21. the gas temp dosnt seem to go up for ages and only it seems to after the engine has warmed up and then been left to stand for a while. but as most of my journeys are of about 30 mins from cold this isnt happening. is there some way of improving this is this normal or should the gas temp rise quicker. where is the temp of the gas taken from. could relocating the vapouizer help or the hot water feed.what temp should both the gas and the reducer be getting to mine are as follows the reducer is getting to about 75 and the gas to about 35 after the car has been stood when war but only about 22 if you continue to drive for 30 mins.

steve_96 · #27 Post by **steve_96** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:08 pm

David, engine coolant temps (and therefore vap. and gas temps) are naturally lower in these colder months, something that is magnified by lower LPG tank and line pressures etc. It may be that you need to replumb the vap. feed/dispersal circuit to get the hottest coolant available with no impediment of any kind decreasing coolant flow, i.e. heater valves etc. Having coolant connections in series with the heater is a common culprit for reduced flow, we find it often. Parallel is much better. It may also be that your car has a Summer thermostat fitted (normally 82 degrees) as opposed to the more normal 88 degree item which would make coolant too low in temp. all Winter. If the car has a viscous cooling fan that works too well, sort it or remove it for the Winter (but do check that the engine will not overheat in traffic as a result). Likewise with electric fans, they do not all work correctly for the whole of their life. Also try nudging up the changeover temp. on the LPG set up - 30 degrees may be fine in Spring onward but in Winter we set 45, often that is not enough (dependant on the car and all of the factors above). Be mindful that whilst a temp gauge on the dash may tell you that the engine is up to temp., that is only valid for the area of the engine that the gauge reads from, NOT the whole of the coolant system. When the thermostat does open it can release coolant at a much lower temp. into the circuit and hamper the operation of the vap. after you have driven away. Also note that we need the most heating of the vap. (as vap temp requirement/ambient temp. differential will be greatest) just at the time when the least heat is available from the engine's coolant and precisely when we want to use the heater the most - WINTER! There is nothing on Earth like good basic groundwork and this is where to focus first. Steve

classicswede · #28 Post by **classicswede** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:41 pm

David if I have read correctly it is the gas temp that is staying low not the reducer temp. This could be because the reducer is not vapourizing correctly. If I rember correctly romano have been water heating the vapour filter. Is this connected up? I could be wrong but worth checking. Mike

oilburner · #29 Post by **oilburner** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:48 pm

yes you are right the reducer temp is rising but the gas temp is not (well not for at least 30 min) i will have a look at the filter (it is the one in line fron the vaporizer to the injectors but im sure its not heated by water can you get heated filters or is there anything else that would help raising the gas temp.

oilburner · #30 Post by **oilburner** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:48 pm

had a look at the filter and it is of the type that you can connect water up to it to heat it up but it hasnt been connected up.

classicswede · #31 Post by **classicswede** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:19 pm

Try connecting it up. If you need conectors try FES on 0845 230 1819. This should help keeping temps stable. Mike

steve_96 · #32 Post by **steve_96** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:49 pm

Gas temp, as any converter should be aware, is directly related to vaporizer temp. The heat does not come from anywhere else. Romano bought in (from outside) the early heated vapour filters for the filter function only, to help stem the problems with low quality British LPG. They decided long ago that heating the vapour filters (if fitted) was not beneficial and possibly detrimental to engine performance. This is mainly because hotter gas (of any kind) is less dense, therefore making a fuel gas less potent. In brief, too HIGH a gas temp. is not good, for proof look no further than an intercooler on any turbocharged or supercharged engine. It is easy to think you have found fault and then get the blinkers on. We all do it now and then, but it may well be that you are barking up the wrong tree. The values quoted are quite normal (75, 35/22) When we order OMVL equipment we ring FES. When we order Romano equipment we phone AGWW. To ring the opposite would be like asking Sainsbury's for some Morrisons brand Tea bags, i.e. they will try and sell you something similar, and it will be Tea bags, but it will not be quite the blend you wanted. This thread has had its fair share of my time now (and scarce that is too) so I bid you farewell and I hope you get the problem sorted.

oilburner · #33 Post by **oilburner** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:47 am

thank you for all your help steve i think it wont be that long before im ringing you up to book the car in for a system check. because as you are a romano specialist you may well see the problem straight away. But thanks anyway i have appreciated all the advise you have gave me.

french · #34 Post by **french** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:15 am

David, Did you ever get to the bottom of this stalling/rough running? I ask because I have had similar for a long long time with the same kit as yours. a few diferences here though, after driving for an hour my Reducer temp shows 150o & the temp numbers st the bottom is fluctuating madly ,so I am going to buy a new temp sender for the Reducer. John at Autogas Engineering is'nt to hopeful that it will help too much but as it is wrong then replace it. The problem that I have is the only people who I have confidence in sorting this car out John at Blaina & Steve @ go-LPg are to far away because when I get there the car is running absolutely perfect & if they can't see\hear read a problem how can they be expected fix it? I live in Bristol & leaving the car with them in Blaina or Reditch is not an option. I have connected the water to the filters it made no difference at all, have you done this ..did it help at all.The was setup by John & he has it running spot on when hot but the cold symptoms are exactly as you describe, apart from I have to travel 6 miles in stop start traffic before it will idle ,which meANS ABOUT 35 STALLS AT LEAST! I have noticed this problem on a few posts & so far have never read a final conclusion or fix?? My car seems to heat the reducers quickly,before the bottom hose is warm the reducers are hot to touch ,as hot as holding a mug of tea in your cupped hands after this its like a kettle just boiled so more than hot enough ,so why is this still persisting god only knows??The car has been on the BMW computer & has no faults, John has all the relevant software for this & always runs a check on the car 1st then connects the Romano software to alter the Lpg so its definetly NOT the car? Any help here greatly appreciated, John

go_lpg · #35 Post by **go_lpg** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:34 am

John, stricly as an aside it seems you are not aware that we moved 18 months ago. We are now in our new premises just off J6 of the M5, a lot closer to you. I mention it for the future in case you need us. Good luck Regards Steve <a href="http://www.go-lpg.co.uk" target=_top>www.go-lpg.co.uk</a>

french · #36 Post by **french** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:57 pm

Hi Steve, No I did'nt realise you had moved. I would like you to see the car but the problem is mainly that the car is not running smoothly when it changes over to gas for the 1st time, if left to stand after a short run it will,when restarted run well.I have conected the filters to water but it seems to make the car cut out at idle when warm ?? So I will take that off before I visit you as I know you do not agree with the idea of heating the gas line after it leaves the vaporisers. Anyway Steve look forward to hearing from you. could you drop me a line at <a href="mailto:gerradiuk@yahoo.com">gerradiuk@yahoo.com</a> so we can discuss further & arrange a convinient time for us both regards my car. John

french · #37 Post by **french** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:49 pm

Steve(Go-LPg) Thanks for fitting the temp sensor at short notice. I've finally found out what the hopefully last driveability problem. The original Air Filter box was held in a securely but it was since fitted with a Stainless Steel cone filter that was NOT supported , so consequently it was pulling on the large inlet hose & was letting in unmetered AIR! Anyway it runs absolutely fine now , I fitted a new rubber O ring & secured it properly I can now slow down to 15mph in 6th gear & pull away without any hiccups at all!!

go_lpg · #38 Post by **go_lpg** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:39 pm

Well done John, Maybe it won't be TDI land for you after all? Pity we could not connect to the ECU, the incorrect mixture would have shown up whilst driving. That problem (connection) will be sorted by a new download shortly. Regards Steve <a href="http://www.go-lpg.co.uk" target=_top>www.go-lpg.co.uk</a>