BMW M5 converted by LPGC

[Tubbs]

Out of interest. I've only ever used magic jets on 2 installs. Neither where particularly demanding. The OMVL CPR is not the reducer I'm actually talking about. It's the emer Palladio that's a real good unit.
And yes I'm very aware that the emer ecu is manufactured by aeb. The algorythum does seem better though. Like calibrating itself on tick over instead of up at 2500 rpm or whatever. Gives a lot better map. Kits are just better. Brass tees. Nice bits for brackets. Stainless clips etc, whereas all the other kits come with plastic tees, cheap and nasty bags of stuff and a couple of lengths of mecano.
I'm in year 17 of LPG conversions now simon. I've well and truly 'been there, done that, got the t shirt' as far as equipment goes. BRC, Prins, all the Italian systems. Messed about with the polish kits. Don't really get on with the graphical interface.
Done sales, tech support for a few large scale importers as well as conversions. Were where you In 1997 when only jay mic existed ?

[classicswede]

There was more than just Jaymic around in 97! Still there was only a very limited choice in distributors and options with equipment.

I've not used plastic water T's for probably close on 10 years! Still a lot of vapourisers only have plastic elbows and I did keep asking omvl if they would at least make some brass ones as an option, never happened.

As to magic jets I have fitted a fair few of them both on small diddy engines and some demanding monsters. Performance wise the MJ's are great and best performing injector for the price. I don't fit them any longer as I had a few fail and had already switched to the Europegas injectors by the time I noticed the problems with them.
Best budget injector I would say is the OMVL reg injectors. Yes I had a shed load of the old ones fail but the older ones again were fine. Since the change to the blue coils (the coils have nothing to do with the change other than to show that the injectors are of the new style) they have been very reliable but do not flow quite as much as the old ones.

Of the AEB packaged kits the EMER system is probably the best package available. I've only fitted the one full kit and did not like it, mostly because the bracketing did not fit so well with the car it was going on. The brackets are well made but just so not offer the flexibility of other units. The injectors are huge (so are Europegas) and can be a pain to fit. The map spread is far to broad for my liking and not what you expect of a good preforming injector and even on a 1800 with big nozzles the map numbers were very high. With that said the system di not take a massive amount of mapping to get good fuel trims and gave much better results than yo would get with type 30's. I think I have said it before its a good kit (better than BRC certainly and way better than a typical stag system) but it just not meet my typical customer needs.

The OMVL CPR btw is a shocker for what it can do. I have a modified CPR on a 300BPH 4 cylinder and it only drops 0.2bar on full load, considering it is only rated to 160bhp I think I can squeeze more out of the CPR than the old HP unit. That 300BHP will nt be just 300BHP for much longer I so should get a chance what it can do. It was fitted when the engine was only 180 ish

[Tubbs]

I've got one in a re mapped forester 2.5 xt.
No worries with it. Been on there well over 24 months now.

[LPGC]

The algorythum does seem better though. Like calibrating itself on tick over instead of up at 2500 rpm or whatever. Gives a lot better map. Kits are just better. Brass tees. Nice bits for brackets. Stainless clips etc, whereas all the other kits come with plastic tees, cheap and nasty bags of stuff and a couple of lengths of mecano.

The algorithms are just the same in AEB ECUs except for Tartarini ECUs. It doesn't really matter to me where the autocal wants the rpm to be during autocalibration because I don't use autocalibration on AEB ECUs (not that AEB autocals are bad or anything i just don't tend to use autocal except on systems that demand it is used). When you select an injector type on an AEB system you get a default map, the autocal then simply lifts or lowers all the numbers in the map by a percentage. It is quicker and easier to to do a manual basic calibration - you should be able to guess fairly accurately where the numbers in the map should be, simply select the full map and lift or lower the numbers to start with, leave all the numbers selected, switch to gas and again raise or lower all the numbers to complete the 'autocal' in record time and at whatever rpm you choose. I choose different rpms on different vehicles for this, depend on the engine spec. Sometimes I emulate how other systems do an autocal i.e. only activate one injector at first and do the above routine at idle. Obviously it is always necessary to do a proper calibration and check idle duration / flat out duration in the process.... Obviously leaving enough leeway in injector linearity at minimum loads for cold mornings when the system will need to reducer Ginj...

I don't buy kits that include clips / Ts / bits of Mecano, I haven't for about 6 years. I buy parts such as Ts and clips in bulk and make all my own brackets from scratch when installing parts on a vehicle - and the parts list is discussed with the customer.

I wasn't in this business in 1997 but you could hardly claim to have much of a head start on me, especially not with sequential systems. I never wanted to be an expert in only one particular LPG system, I wanted to be an LPG system expert, thus I have gone out of my way to know all about different systems/components/etc with hands on experience. I have fitted most everything including the older none slave / sequential systems. Saying you started a few years before me isn't much of a claim given we've both been pros donkeys years and we don't often recommend older types of equipment these days... After over 10 years in the business, and having fixed many systems that were installed in 1997, then I should be rather good at it by now, and I am! My first job was in an office, I worked with 2 brothers whom had been there 3 years and 2 years, both did the same fairly menial job. After all this time I still remember the hilarity when, during a work related argument, the brother who had been there 3 years mocked the other one with 'You've only been here 2 minutes, what do you ^*&* know'...

Hi Dai, fair and balanced comments as usual mate.

Simon

[Tubbs]

Well. You know the definition of an expert simon :-
An ex is a has been
And a spurt is a drip under pressure '
It's always the same with you though isn't it. You just don't listen to anyone else's point of view. Don't feel any of it has validity other than your own. I was trying to point out that other experienced converters on this forum may be capable of making a decision. Or people like Neil mugglestone deciding to go with BRC. Autogas developments going with Prins. There is a reason, other than financial.
We have a forum now swamped with inconsequential drivel, mostly you, having an argument with yourself.
A clear concise answer would be nice occasionally.

[classicswede]

The algorithms are just the same in AEB ECUs except for Tartarini ECUs. .

Simon

Not picking holes just getting the info out there. AEB make ECU's for both Landi, Landi Renzo and Eurogas (not Europegas) and they are designed to work in a totally different way. The ECU pinout is different and not compatible with the other AEB systems.

The Autocal is of no concern to me as I've not bothered to do one for years with AEB, its slow and you still have to correct it anyway.

Each of the AEB ECU's has its own variations with different injector options and often different temperature and pressure correction values.

[LPGC]

Not wishing to fall out with anyone Tubbs mate.

I do listen to others points of view - and I respect them. I respect them more when they're balanced though.
I don't know who's guilty of inconsequential drivel - I don't necessarily use others threads to promote one particular boxed system, with a view to generating future business, by implying that I always fit these components because they're the best components - instead I say it's horses for courses. It's almost as though you could save yourself some time writing posts by including the following in your forum signature: Need new injectors? fit V34s regardless of what engine they will be fitted to, need any parts whatsoever contact supplier X, want a vehicle converting come to me because I always fit V34s from supplier X, if you're looking for an installer you might want to read the recent review that a recent customer has conveniently written just as you're looking for an installer. I haven't commented many times when one of the above situations has happened but the few times I have, it doesn't seem like I've been arguing with myself.. 'Clear and concise' are not terms I would use to describe hype.

Not picking holes just getting the info out there. AEB make ECU's for both Landi, Landi Renzo and Eurogas (not Europegas) and they are designed to work in a totally different way. The ECU pinout is different and not compatible with the other AEB systems.

The Autocal is of no concern to me as I've not bothered to do one for years with AEB, its slow and you still have to correct it anyway.

Each of the AEB ECU's has its own variations with different injector options and often different temperature and pressure correction values.

Yes mate, for clarity I was talking about the AEB2568's etc that are pinout compatible and which we mostly mean when we refer to AEB systems. I know the base maps are different shapes with different versions of these ECUs / firmware even for the same types of injectors, but we agree this isn't of consequence because the base map shape will be adjusted during calibration anyway and we don't use the slow autocal with them. Pressure correction is going to be very much the same between all systems and with recent reducers we don't see so big pressure variations anyway.. whilst recent firmware / software allows adjustment of reference pressure on many systems that didn't used to provide the facility, the same is true for temp corrections.

Simon

[Spyke]

Do you have any pictures with the covers off Simon ?

Cover off the engine? That isn't an engine cover it's the top of the plenum, part of the engine! You wouldn't see the injectors with the top of the plenum off because they're well below the bottom plate of the plenum. Under the 'cover' you see there are 8 inlet runners (one for each cylinder obviously) sucking on the air from the plenum, then the bottom plate of the plenum, then 8 individual throttle bodies. There are loads of bolts to remove! The injectors are installed in the middle of the engine's V between the cylinder heads where a normal V engine inlet manifold would have it's runners. The ECU is under the passenger side pollen filter. You can see the reducers, map sensor, etc.

I'd like to see a Prins or BRC installer try to convert one of these cars...

Simon
Lpgc

[Spyke]

Hi Simon,

I have a m5 v10 running on a prins system. Tried to attach pics but didnt work.

[LPGC]

Hi Spyke, Noticed you're a new member, only ever two posts, both on this thread 6 months apart? I might have expected you to have written a review on the 'find me an installer' board instead of this board first. Conspiracy theory eh!

LPGC wrote: I'd like to see a Prins or BRC installer try to convert one of these cars...

Both Prins and BRC have big chunky injectors and would be more compromised in where you could position them

Simon

[Spyke]

Hi Simon,

I was registered in 2011 so not new .
I only wanted to quote you with the part that you wanted an other system on such an engine.

Cheers

[john_d]

Hi Simon,

I have a m5 v10 running on a prins system. Tried to attach pics but didnt work.

http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=12009