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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:58 am 
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Just an observation.

The injector’s look like they inject into the top of the valve, this is common, as it makes sure the fuel is as close to the valve as possible when it opens, it cools as it evaporates and lubricates a bit.

So injected fuel is a liquid, it goes as a high pressure stream towards the valve, there it evaporates into a high density vapour and then gets sucked in when the value opens.

The way you have positioned your gas inlet on the side means you are injecting a low pressure gas, higher volume, into the side of the manifold, there it will expands up and away from the valve, consider the area around the value to be a closed air volume like a pint glass. Petrol is injected into the bottom of the glass and displaces the air out around the valve with fuel vapour. To obtain the same effect with a low-density gas you need to inject it directionally down the sidewall towards the valve. You want it to swirl around and displace the air around the valve before intake. At the moment your "farting" across the intake and hoping it gets sucked in.

Options as suggested are a straw to get the gas down there, option 2 direct you gas jet at the valve seat area.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:44 pm 
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I buy that; drop the gas at the valve then allow the air to be drawn through it. Guarantees that the gas hits the cylinder than you want. Trouble is I only have the one injection point with the gas and two valves.

Question: Assume that I get the nozzles entering much closer to the valves by drilling and tapping the head.

The BiGas type directional nozzles will direct the gas straight down at one valve. I'm with Ross in that this "feels wrong" even if it does get thoroughly mixed as drawn through valves and into combustion chamber. I'd also be restricted with positioning if I don't want to get in the way of the existing petrol injector spray pattern.

A straight gas nozzle will tend to "fart across the intake port" instead. This would deliver a gas hit to both valves, and I could even cut the nozzle off near flush with the inside of the port, so that there's no restriction at all. There's still some time/distance for it to hang around and mix with the intake air, but being that bit further down the intake towards the valve (beyond halfway towards the valve) it shouldn't naff off back up the intake plenum/chargecooler.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:27 pm 
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If you can get your gas inlet aimed down at the valves rather than across (small elbow maybe) it would be much better, you don't need a long tube, the gas stream itself is quite directional, it’s at 14 psi. If you bolt the injector assembly back and pulse the gas inlets with compresses air at 14psi you should get a flow back out from the valve area (as long as the valve is closed of course), not the compressed air itself but the air you have moved out the way.

If you want to test it for flow pattern fill the area around the valve with ciggy smoke of something similar, then give it a quick pulse, all the smoke must clear and fast, any left trapped is a dead volume.

My can has 16v 4 cylinder, I inject though the same hole as the fuel injectors using adaptors, this is not as good as the petrol injectors but since the area around the valves is relatively small and the inlet manifold is separated to each cylinder I have no issues. The whole gas charge does go into the cylinder. The aim is also to the side of the valve down the chamber wall so it swirls in and around the valve.

If you worried about it fouling the petrol injection stream, place it where you want it, make sure it secure or tied off so it can't go into the valve, disconnect the coil, make sure the injectors are wired and fuelled and turn it over, if it sprays your pipe work its in the way.

As for straight gas inlets, they don’t have to be drilled perpendicular to the surface; they can be drilled and tapped at an angle to give a directional stream of gas. The best bet is to find a point above the injector, aim down the side of the inlet port of the engine, this will swirl the gas down and around rather than trying to “punch” a gas stream through the middle of the port. Test it with smoke and a gas pulse if you want to find the “sweet” spot.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Good plan with the smoke. A directional nozzle entering where I've drawn the yellow lines but with the outlet heading towards the valley of the engine might work nicely. Swirl around the bottom (valley side) of the port to try and hit both valves.

Wouldn't want to go into the head at an angle as I don't know where the waterways are. Nipping through the "runner" part of the casting, perpendicular to the port, is safe though.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Do yourself another spreadsheet. Calculate the idle fuel mass dollops, and how much volume that takes up at 0.35bar or so. If you can contain that volume in the stubby inlet tract above the injection point, all should be well?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:14 pm 
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The volume is de minimus at tickover.


Called these chaps this afternoon out of curiosity:

http://www.gaspoweruk.co.uk/v3/lpgconve ... y_002.html
http://www.gaspoweruk.co.uk/v3/lpgconve ... y_005.html
http://www.gaspoweruk.co.uk/v3/lpgconve ... y_004.html
http://www.gaspoweruk.co.uk/v3/lpgconve ... y_003.html

http://www.gaspoweruk.co.uk/v3/lpgconve ... y_001.html
http://www.gaspoweruk.co.uk/v3/lpgconve ... y_001.html


"Mind if I asked a cheeky question? Feel free to put the phone down!"

After he stopped laughing at the choice of a first install, the chap on the phone said that they used to convert the supercharged Jaguar engines but they won't convert any more of them. Mostly because they're a pig to work on which makes the conversion uneconomic. His advice though:

It isn't flashlube that these engines need - it's setting up right at the top end - and he has many people call him after having done 20k on LPG installs performed elsewhere. (with melted the exhaust valves)

They used BRC kit with the supermax injectors and a single large BRC vapouriser. Petrol addition is required at the top end if you don't want it running lean.

Injectors are mounted upside down and non-vertical on the cam covers and this hasn't caused issues. The hoses are equal length but significantly longer than 300 mm and this hasn't caused issues, except brief switchover stumble as they are purged of air. Most importantly though...

...you CAN fit hoses between the supercharger and the intake manifolds. Apparently. References to complete and utter children of unmarried parents were made but this is apparently possible. Enter where there are blue dots, curl through and follow yellow path:

Image

Image

Image

Image

That would give an angle almost the same as the petrol injector, with a little swirl, and aimed towards the centre of the port. I'd never have believed it possible to fit the hoses through there though. (and you're violating the "maximum hose length rule" guidelines)


Additional advice:

-Don't use those "solid" straws as they will crack/break and drop into the engine.

-Don't use small 2.5 mm ID nozzles. Hole in brass nozzle should be >4 mm diameter. Nozzles are easier to drill out AFTER fitting. Use M6 thread and 6 mm pipe stub. Check the distribution rail too.


So here's somewhere else where the more expensive kits win out. Standard 5 mm ID hose is 11 mm OD:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... PZv6zunN7Q

The hoses supplied with the BRC kits are 5 mm ID and 10.5 mm OD. With their maximum length of 400 mm BRC are doing the "thinking" for you by only supplying these lengths. They've also got crimped-on swivel fittings, for the steel (strong when drilled out) injection nozzles/stubs. Hose with fitting for the manifold end:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... XN-roW7tzQ


Fitting for the injector end: (use with clip)

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... FghM5z_A_w


Nozzle/stub for the manifold:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... UBil718Kiw


The hose is the one listed at the bottom here:

http://hosemann.co.uk/files/attachments ... LASS_2.pdf


Retail from Poland is £56 + £8 post for 9 hoses with pre-crimped ends and 9 injector nozzles. (connect to existing HANA injectors with existing jubilee clips) Any UK BRC fitters want to match? I could use a longer JIC fill hose, one of those recessed filler gubbins, and two 8 mm or 10 mm OD pipe stubs at the same time. (to replace the factory part-load breather pipe stub and brake servo pipe connection with something more durable)


Cheers,

--
M


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:52 pm 
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Helped Lawson @ Powerhouse (Bike/Nitrous/Jaguar specialists in Sheffield) strip an XJR last week. Acquired a few pieces, including this one...

http://gallery.cosic.org.uk/upload/2012 ... e7a249.jpg


Those problematic nozzles. I picked up a spare set of intake manifolds (oh so short; almost like LPGing a vehicle on throttle bodies) and fuel rails from the scrap XJR. After many experiments and head scratching, I decided on the following approach. Take these nozzles:

http://gallery.cosic.org.uk/upload/2012 ... cf9f20.jpg

25 mm overall length. 15 mm "barb" with 5 mm thread and 5 mm plain nozzle. They're M6 thread, 6 mm OD barb, with 3.5 mm ID. Drill and tap here:

http://gallery.cosic.org.uk/upload/2012 ... 577ba2.jpg

These exit here, about as close to the OE petrol injector as is humanly possible. The manifold is nice and thick here too.

Image

However:

http://gallery.cosic.org.uk/upload/2012 ... 351d13.jpg

So:

http://gallery.cosic.org.uk/upload/2012 ... df4fd5.jpg
http://gallery.cosic.org.uk/upload/2012 ... f0d1fa.jpg
http://gallery.cosic.org.uk/upload/2012 ... c7a943.jpg

And finally:

Image


I ummed and aahed about doing this for a long time, but came to the conclusion that running through this part of the fuel rail structure was the only way to get a nozzle near the OE injector without resorting to straws. (straws are just horrible - something that I refuse to do)

The main strength in the fuel rail/main load is from the clamp bolts. As such the "sides" of the fuel rail are important and you definitely don't want to remove a piece of those to sneak the LPG hose between the rail and the head. Removing a piece of the top is less critical. Worst case, the fuel rail flexes and the seal between it and the manifold leaks under boost - a risk that I'm willing to take. The hose isn't ideally angled/bent, but there's no difference in the pressure drop over that slightly kinked hose and a straight one once you allow for the 3.5 mm ID nozzle.


I also had a go with threading 6 mm OD copper LPG pipe. You can't thread it M6x1, but it is possible to thread it M7x1. You can then screw this into an M7x1 thread tapped into an alloy manifold, loctite it in place, then insert a mandrel (plain punch works well) and bend the pipe in-situ to use it as a very compact feed pipe. Advantage is that it is much more compact than a nozzle plus hose.

Too much faff compared with drilling the fuel rail though, and if you did sneak the copper pipe between the intake manifold and the head the angle of the "nozzle" in the intake manifold wasn't ideal. Could be useful elsewhere though, especially on very high power engines where the 4 mm ID would be handy.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:34 pm 
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New filler location:

Image

Image

Image

I've let a second fuel filler flap in on the passenger side. Cut the bodyshell from a scrapper to get the nice rolled edge and the mounting studs inside the boot. Cut 6-8 mm away from the rolled edge, and butt-weld in short (6-8 mm) sections to minimise panel distortion. Wiping the weld with a damp rag afterwards minimises paint damage on these non-structural welds. Dress back flush with a 120 grit flapdisc and you're ready for paint. It will need high build primer but you won't need bodyfiller if done right. Paint the whole panel behind the rear screen and use the two seams at the rear wing joint to hide any mismatch.

Behind the flap there's the factory rubber "tray" with a water/fuel/vapour drain at it's lowest point. I've then made a stainless "tray" to go underneath this, welding a section of 55 mm OD exhaust pipe to it that pushes through the rubber "tray" like the petrol filler neck would. A flat plate on top of this has M5 nuts welded to the back of it to bolt the bayonet filler to. (90 degree JIC type) Mount this as high as possible to get maximum clearance with the LPG nozzle. I've used the brass screwcap type of dust cover for this reason, and the fuel flap (double skinned from the factory) has a relief in the inner skin to clear the bayonet. The fill hose disappears behind the OE boot carpet if you use a 90 degree elbow type. 1.5 metre or 1.75 metre length is needed.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:14 am 
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And new nozzle location:

Image

That's the entire intake chargercooler/plenum and intake runner on these cars. Old injection location is the one nearer the chargecooler/plenum, new is nearer the engine. Approx 45 mm difference. And?

Works a treat! :D

(with supercharger belt off)

Autocalibrated reasonably well, so set one bank on petrol and one on gas, tweaked the 2D multiplier map (the equivalent on an AEB system would be the same numbers across the rpms, but different up and down the injection times) up about 6 keystrokes at each point so that the petrol times on both banks were the same. Switched completely to petrol and "collected the map" (record 3D chart of petrol injector times when running closed loop on petrol) then switch completely to gas and "collected the map" (record 3D chart of petrol injector times when running closed loop on gas). That'd be about it if it were naturally aspirated, it's all with about 5% so flick on the OBD adaptation and let it turn the 2D multiplier map into a 3D one.

I'll drop the supercharger belt on and pop it on a dyno with dual widebands to do the on-boost stuff. At £40/hr it isn't worth mucking about on a public road or mapping it blind in the open-loop part of the map. Need to repair the supercharger first though. Last time I changed the coupler and the snout oil. This eliminated the "marbles" sound of the dodgy coupler, but highlighted bearings in need of work. :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58FxOFIOqXI

(the "solid" coupler managed to pick up a resonance at tickoever that the "broken" coupler was too loose to transmit)

A few other bits have had attention too.

Front chassis legs? Look fine from the outside, but chop 'em out and sure enough they were rotting between the layers (usually hidden by the subframe mounting rubber) so that needed a panel welding in. Rust was removed/treated on the rest of the underside, etch-primer/painted/stonechipped where necessary, then the whole lot treated with Dinitrol. They've got a new product by the way; ML wax has replaced 3125 wax for the cavities and it's now an insanely low surface tension/creepy product. So much better than the Waxoyl brand and atomising and getting absolutely everywhere. New kunifer hard lines were also fitted:
Image
Image

Suspension and brakes? New discs and pads and rebuilt calipers all round, along with every bearing bush and balljoint on the car, and a new set of Michelin Pilot Sports to finish it off.
Image
Image

A grand's worth of parts and 600 quid's worth of tyres but well worth it; absolutely transforms the vehicle from a wandering old smoker that shows its 10 years and 150k into something that feels as good as the day it was made. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:35 pm 
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Update on this:


Still running with the supercharger disconnected, pending finding a replacement one. (the coupler was damaged so replaced the coupler which cured one horrible noise, only to highlight another bearing noise)


The LPG is otherwise finished though, returning 17 mpg on gas in mixed use. Interesting effect of the Valtek 74 high flow tank valve, 8 mm feed pipe, twin liquid filters and twin reducers is that it'll actually cruise the LPG tank completely dry. (it'll run on vapour

The flashlube needed setting to "1.5" on the scale rather than "6" as the instructions suggest as a starting point. Switchover is set to 3 second delay, 200 ms between cylinders, and 30C reducer temperature. Doesn't stay on petrol long at all (perhaps 1/4 mile) and unless you leave it overnight the heat-soak means the second start of the day is always over 30C so 3 secs then gas.

LPG mapping was something of an anti-climax compared with the rest of the install and the fun we had with the Rover. Here's how you map a Stag sytem:


Your basic control is the 2D multiplier. What multiple of the petrol injector time should the gas injector time be?

Image

(the equivalent on a AEB system would be editing all the rpms at the same time, using a key on the keyboard)

There's an auto-calibration routine to get you one point at idle and guestimate the rest. You can then move points up/down and left/right indivudally or collectively, and add as many as you please.


I switched one bank to petrol and the other to gas, then drove gently and had kid brother tweak the multiplier until the petrol injection times on each bank were the same. Idle is easy. Then pop it in D and turn on all the electrical loads for another datapoint. Hold the car on the brake and add a little throttle and you get a datapoint at about 3.5 ms. We added three more (5, 8, 11 ms) and found a hill to cruise up to set the 5 ms and 8 ms multipliers.


With the 5 datapoints set the car drove pretty nicely, so you then take it for a drive on petrol to collect the petrol map: (petrol injector time when running on petrol)

Image

Then take it for a drive on gas to collect the gas map: (petrol injector time when running on gas)

Image


You need a dual carriageway with a steep hill to collect the upper reaches of this, as the car sets off in 2nd and 2nd will take you past 70 mph. You need the hill to slow the acceleration down enough for the gas ECU to decide that things are in "steady state" rather than "transient" otherwise it won't record the injection times. With the supercharger connected this vehicle would need a dyno for proper setup.


Now flick back to the 2D multiplier and it overlays the maps you collected:

Image

It needs a little more at the top end - bringing the 11 ms datapoint up to 1.2 resolved this perfectly.


You can also look at this on a 3D "deflection" map:

Image

This shows the % difference between injector times on gas and petrol. It needed less gas on overun. Bringing the 0ms and 2 ms datapoints down to 1.0 multiplier resolved this. The high-load low-rpm datapoints are unreliable (an auto never really operates there, so the ECU is collecting transient injection times not steady state ones) so ignore those.


If you need rpm based correction, you can switch to a 3D multiplier:

Image

(this is a graphical equivalent of the table in an AEB system) There are also temperature based corrections and whatnot available.

The Jaguar and HANA injectors needed none of this - everything is nice and linear/well behaved to so that is it really. HANA Green. 1.0 multiplier until 2 ms. 1.2 multiplier from 3.5 ms onwards. A little slope in between. :-)


You'll see a graph in the bottom of the screen. This is an "oscilloscope" of all the data on the right hand side of the screen, PLUS all the OBD data, and you can record it all whilst you're driving for later recall. Drive, then interrogate everything, incl the fuel trims and ONE wideband oxygen sensor, later. This was useful when things were going wrong earlier, but once the nozzles were in the right place I haven't looked at the OBD data other than post-mapping curiosity. (if injection times match and lambda does what it should with the check engine light off, things are dandy) I haven't turned on the auto-adaptation either - there appears to be no need for it with a good base map.

The one thing OBD *is* useful for is clearing the occasional P0430 (bank 2 cat inefficiency) code that can show after a hoon it around then snap the throttle shut, but that's a aged catalyst/oxygen sensor combo that triggers the same fault on petrol. It works well enough for MOT purposes anyhow:

Image

(petrol, fast and natural idle)

Image

(gas, natural idle only)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:17 pm 
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The "if you were to do this all over again" thoughts.


ECU

I'd use the Stag system again, but I wouldn't bother with the OBD connection. (use the ISA2 not the Premium ECU)

I wouldn't put it on the driver's side of the car and make the connections in the engine bay. I would put it on the passenger side, inside the OEM ECU box:

Image

Image

A Stag ECU *will* fit here whereas an AEB ECU will not. I also found the AEB frustrating to work with compared with the Stag.

You can pull ALL of the connections you need except for the main power/earth feeds from inside this ECU box. There's even a convenient hole straight into the passenger footwell for the USB lead, just inboard of the ECU box cooling fan. (yes, you read right - there's a fan to draw air from the cabin into the ECU box and back into the cabin again, due to the engine bay temperatures in this vehicle!)

Image


Reducers:

I wouldn't use the KME Gold reducers, simply because they're huge! 1.3 bar gas pressure gives plenty idle pulsewidth and full load headroom with HANA green injectors, so whatever you use need not be exciting. I'd probably use 2* Zaviloi Zeta-S reducers and relocate the PAS reservoir as I have done on this current install.


Injectors

I would use the HANA injectors again, even though the current ones were a pain to fit. Why? They appear to work well, and having learned a little more about LPG since first deciding how to mount them I don't think you need to be as anal as some would suggest.

I'd do exactly the same as gaspoweruk do:

http://www.gaspoweruk.co.uk/v3/lpgconve ... y_002.html

Get the HANA rail, and bang it upside down at 45 degrees on the coilpack covers. Quick, easy, and results in 300 mm hoses. The manufacturer certifies the injectors for horizontal mounting (ie, they won't wear out) and with the absurd amount of heat/heat soak that you get in an XJR engine bay I'm now less worried about them gumming up than I used to be.

You could fit MagicJet and satisfy the < 300 mm and vertical and constant drop down to the intake crowd, but having handled them I'd say that the MagicJet injectors are a shoddy equipment.

You could also fit Valtek/Emer Type 34s and satisfy the < 300 mm and vertical and constant drop down to the intake crowd, but you really want four pairs of two to do it neatly and that's significantly more expensive than a pair of 4-cyl HANA rails. More expensive to the point that you could afford to replace the HANA rails every 50k.



The above is 500 euro inc VAT:

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=pl&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdrypa.pl%2F&langpair=pl|en



Liquid Piping

The run I've used is good and causes no maintenance headaches, even with the rear subframe. I wouldn't change this, and nor would I use polypipe because the polypipe needs more fixings to keep it *exactly* where you want it in tight spaces. There's also less of a question mark over copper pipe in a stinking hot engine bay than polypipe.


Tank

Don't use Stako brand. Use the GZWM brand. Their valve boxes aren't a retarded design that sticks up higher than the top of the tank...

http://www.gaspoweruk.co.uk/v3/lpgconve ... y_003.html

The mounting straps I made worked very well. Don't mount the tank backwards as shown in the above photo, else you'll get slosh that reduces the usable "full power" range of the tank.

Bunging the tank in on a 5 degree slant is no problem with a kink in the float arm to restore the 80% fill shutoff. Without the kink the shutoff is 90% and that's not suitable for all users. (Fine if you know about it and always fill before driving, but if you were to drive then fill a tank with cold LPG then let it heat-soak you'd have a problem. 80% fill allows for a 70 deg C temperature rise before venting. 90% is only 35 deg C which isn't much.)


For a "super easy" install, I'd use this 720x250 mm tank with a high-output multivalve:

http://translate.google.com/translate?c ... pair=pl|en

This would mean little/no mucking about with the boot floor trim, but you're down to 80L nominal and would struggle to make a 250 mile range. You're also 8 mm fill line rather than a JIC hose. I don't know what difference this makes in practice as both vehicles that I converted are on JIC hose/fill pretty quickly.


Filler

Two petrol flaps looks right on a Jaguar and is worth the hassle I think. Fill hose is a 1.75 metre JIC one.

Image

They aren't perfectly symmetrical (gap for your thumb is at the front on the new one, rather than the back) but this isn't objectionable.

If you weren't to do this, I'd put the filler on the driver's side, where the fuel filler flap would normally go, rather than on the wing. It's flatter here and there is more stiffening nearby to rpevent distortion due to the filler hose. I'd still sikaflex a piece of 3 mm plate behind the panelwork to support the LPG filler though.


And that's about all! When we actually get a working supercharger and a dyno slot I'll report back on the top end, but other than that this is the sum total of my 2 cents thus far.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:17 pm 
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markocosic wrote:
Injectors
... and having learned a little more about LPG since first deciding how to mount them I don't think you need to be as anal as some would suggest.

Most of the suggestions relate to longevity and cold climate performance .. "you ain't qualified to comment on those yet" ;)

markocosic wrote:
with the absurd amount of heat/heat soak that you get in an XJR engine bay I'm now less worried about them gumming up than I used to be.

The extra heat may increase the risk of gumming, driving off volatiles from the heavy ends to leave solids, where cooler running would allow it all to run through as oily goop. This is not the same as waxing issues when truly cold.

I've found coal-like deposits in vaporisers on cars that run hotter than usual water systems (>95C) compared to the more usual brown varnish. Be sure to use vapour filters to catch this @!## as it flakes off.
Years will tell.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:38 am 
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Quote:
Most of the suggestions relate to longevity and cold climate performance .. "you ain't qualified to comment on those yet" :wink:


True... ...however:

There would appear to be many PRINS and BRC installs that flout all the "rules" (upside downs and horizontals) without appearing to cause longevity issues. So a good chance that it'll be fine. Considering the ease of doing it "wrong" and the relative price of injectors vs labour, I'd be inclined to risk doing it "wrong" so to speak.

It doesn't get cold here and this particular engine bay doesn't stay cold for long, so cold climate is a non-concern in this specific application.


The neatest job would be four 2-injector Valtek/Emer Type 34s:

http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/acatalog/Mu ... Emer_.html

Mount one on each "cam cover special stud" (these are between 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, 7&8) and you'd have them vertical with a straight shot down through/past the fuel rail and into the intake. You're talking £280+VAT + fitting oddments + additional bracket labour rather than 160 euros inc VAT though, and a bunch more faff to mount them compared with nailing the HANA rails to the coil pack cover plates.

Each to their own, but I would do it "wrong" next time.


Wouldn't risk straws or MagicJets though!


Quote:
The extra heat may increase the risk of gumming, driving off volatiles from the heavy ends to leave solids


This is probably one of these vehicles. I'll keep an eye on the vapour filters; not a lot else to be done really?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:17 pm 
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8,000 miles in and it's averaging about 17 mpg or about 17p/mile at FloGas prices. Nothing much to report other than petrol use in winter on short journeys of ~10% with changeover set to 30C.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:55 pm 
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What a great thread! Know it's an old one, was directed here with Tubbs mentioning it on another thread.

Done quite a few of these normally aspirated and supercharged V8 Jags with various ECU's, injectors and reducer(s).

AEB124's are needed on some.

There is space between the supercharger and rocker covers to run 5mm pipe to injectors, 5mm pipe is a tight fit on 6mm outlets but isn't a problem. Arguably, smaller diameter pipes aren't as critical on pipe length as bigger diameters. Have had good results from both MJ and Hana injectors, but as said, Hana are more durable. MJ's deliver the performance but look feeble.

Have found quite a few KME gold reducers develop issues with fluctuating pressures and lack of flow, so haven't fitted this reducer to anything recently. Might be a problem with the more recent models, as old ones don't seem to be affected. Would disconnect the solenoid wiring at one reducer from time to time to make sure the other is working OK though.

Similarly story with supercharged RangeRovers with the Jag derived V8, pain with the fuel return though. Anyone found an emulator that actually works (even on the V6 jags for which they are intended)?

Simon

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:59 pm 
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A photo of where you run those pipes Simon? You would never run a pipe between the supercharger and rocker covers.

Supercharger is in the centre. Outboard of these are intake manifolds. (short stubby affairs that the fuel rail is mounted in) Above the intake manifolds are the plenum chambers/chargecoolers. Outboard of the intake manifolds are the cam covers/rocker covers.

These pipes run between the plenum chambers/chargecoolers and the cam covers/rocker covers. Enough room even for 6 mm ID pipe, though these are 5 mm ID.

Will keep an eye on the KMEs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:38 am 
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LPGC wrote:

Similarly story with supercharged RangeRovers with the Jag derived V8, pain with the fuel return though. Anyone found an emulator that actually works (even on the V6 jags for which they are intended)?

Simon



No and I don't think there ever will be. You can can not get an emulator that give the right readings when the ECU is expecting to see them. Loads have tried and they have all failed to make an emulator that truely works. You can get lucky and a emulator might work for a while but eventuly the ECU will notice.

The fuel return is the best way and the ECU sees more or less exactly what it expects.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:18 pm 
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Now i was taught a trick by the one and only neil mugglestone about a fuel return. Its dead quick and simple.
Go down the motor factors and buy a new filter and some petrol clips, the one with the nut and screw not jubbly clip types. Drill and tap into the flat side on the inlet above the moulded nut on the filter leaving enough room to get your pipe clip and do the feed pipe nut back up. Screw in a gas spud with loctite on the thread, about 1/2 inch down the fuel hose fit a .8 mig tip and put a clip round it to stop it wondering off down the pipe. Send your fuel hose back to the tank, where you fit the solenoid using the tank solenoid wire as your trigger. Return it to the filler neck.
Done quite a few like that now. Its dead quick and easy. Biggest job is removing the under skirt !


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