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 Post subject: LNG as motor fuel?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:47 am
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I heard that now the USA is awash with natural gas from fracking, some trucking companies will be converting
to LNG. Further it was stated that this would not be practical for cars. I imagine so. LNG is generally kept
liquid by cooling rather than temperature.
So why go to all this trouble? Presumably higher density than CNG, so that trucks can do longer runs
between fewer filling stations.
:o


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 Post subject: Re: LNG as motor fuel?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:54 pm
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The issue with CNG/LNG is range, tank size and not really the actaul cost of the fuel. Also there is vested politcal interests in us not having it. In countries with no access to oil (or where it is undeveloped) but lots of gas, its use is almost universal. [See Argentina, Brazil etc]. Here in the UK we get 'right-on' councils using tax-payers money to put it in Dustcarts and buses. Often the Zamboni in yor local ice-rink is CNG. (although mine runs LPG).

Tanks are mahoosive compared to LPG, and thus heavy. LNG (frozen CNG) has greater energy density than CNG, so gets round thsi issue to a point. But... for this an LNG tank is an even heavier CNG tank then put into a Thermos flask. No car could carry the weight, and hte cost of hte tank is madness for car use. Thus HGV use is when it is viable. Chive & Gasrec have a small LNG network used by Tesco, Coke & Waitrose amongst others - fracking is coming here. The Yanks have gone big on it and they run CNG in cars, as do the Italians, the Indians, the Germans, much of South America etc.

Only one up on an aerosol can, an LPG tank is silly toy by comparison. An LNG tank for a truck comes in at £15,000. Decent car sized CNG tanks are £2-4000 (Type 3 composite). 3000-5000 psi. 200-300 bar. That is a lot. They need to be as heavy as a welding cylinder, but bigger. In steel that means weight, so get made in composite, which means cost.

LNG is here now,and we have a soem CNG too. If you want to drive a Volvo, a VW Caddy Van, Iveco Daily or a Merc Sprinter you too can run CNG, (all Bifuel) but here in hte UK, your choices of vehicle stop there. And the small issue of needing to live in Wincanton, Nottingham, Crewe or Daventry to fill up. If your neighbours are happy with the parking arrangements for your two 32 ton curtain-siders, one for you, one for the missus ;), then you can use the slightly more expansive LNG network.

Apart form its storage, it is the superior motor fuel in many respects, higher octane even than LPG, and far cleaner burning than LPG. It can be made from sewerage, & cow-poo too. It's methane. if you understand LPG you understand CNG, it's only the tanks that are lots heavier. After the regualtor it is the same.

Electic cars are not viable and only for 'Hello' & Guardian readers and they (our ruling elite) know this too well.. Which is why they promote them. LNG/ CNG is here and it works and has done for years. But it's not Airhaed enough for Miss Jolie's PR team, she can't plug it in, and the powerful fuel lobby wants her to 'Push the plug', so we think we need electric. They are careful not to even mention CNG in a car. It's woirking too..

We'd be spending money on pricey tanks, and not the fuel and its tax. Couldn't have that now could we?

OK rant over, but go on, tell me I'm wrong? Proof....

Image


The figure of 19 stations includes private fills and LNG only. Chive is LNG only. Public 24 hour filling in the UK for CNG is limited to two. Daventry & Crewe. Wincaton & Nottngham are 9-5pm

Image


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 Post subject: Re: LNG as motor fuel?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 5:51 pm
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CNG wrote:
We'd be spending money on pricey tanks, and not the fuel and its tax.

What makes you think that about the tax?
Road fuel duty is arbritary. Gaseous road fuel is presently subject to levels of duty set less than petrol, reasoning that CO2 emissions are lower.
LNG/CNG attracts a slightly smaller duty per kg than LPG on that basis.

Government(s) have made it quite clear they intend to penalise fossil fuel users - that includes NGV. In theory they should then allow exceptions for non-fossil gas producers (e.g. cowdung) but I don't think that yet exists? I wouldn't expect a huge allowance either - using the model that biodiesel has a concessionary duty less than fossil diesel, but still a significant proportion. Fossil fuel users may be penalised, but there are no gifts for renewables users.

'Electrics' as you say is presently cobblers!!

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 Post subject: Re: LNG as motor fuel?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:55 am 
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My car when i fill up with GasRec (Daventry) uses not cow-dung but gas from their Land-fill site. They pump it into the national grid as well, so it could be argued you've used it too when you turned your home's temperature stat up a notch.


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 Post subject: Re: LNG as motor fuel?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:53 pm 
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There are also numerous sewage gas to grid plants around the country, with more coming along all the time. Forget cow dung gas, there's much more human sewage about.
Huw


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 Post subject: Re: LNG as motor fuel?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:21 pm
Posts: 3733
Location: Midlands
I can't say too much on this subject .... But I'm absolutely bursting to tell all !
Bio methane is on the way, the infrastructure will boom , and we will all be swapping out our LPG tanks for Kevlar composite and changing our fuel lines and reducers and ticking the box that says 'methane' in the very near future.
........................................................


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