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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Well when the day comes and your walloped or written off by some doood with an extensively modified vehicle and the mods havent been disclosed and all you get is bottom book or nothing and you pay out your excess's after a few years of insurance wrangling of course and then the doood only has to pay out at £3.00 a month compensation etc etc, maybe you will think about becoming one, it strikes a raw nerve when this sort of things come up as when it gets extremely close to your own family as in loosing 2 very good best friends cos of some punk kid bombing about at 2 in the a.m looses it writes his car off and kills the 2 passengers, then we find out the car was a death trap and he lied to save his own skin and then we have to console your child for months on end because of the losses, it sort of puts things into perspective :|


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:44 pm 
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gasbo wrote:
simon...sure you havent got a vested interest in insurance?
I don't think he has but I've got a vested interest in staying out of prison or paying compensation to somebody for the rest of my life. That's why I do most thing legally......

Political correctness has nothing to do with it, being responsible for yourself and those around you has though.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:53 pm 
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gasbo wrote:
simon...sure you havent got a vested interest in insurance? one thing ive found out is nearly all forums are infiltrated by the politically correct control brigade...even the david icke forum :lol:

Go read some of my other posts - you'll find that I'm no fan of (most) insurance companies and some of their policies. So don't try and shift your paranoia onto other people by accusing them of being shills.

Frankly, if you write off your car, get screwed over because you lied to fraudulently get insurance, and get a criminal record for fraud and driving without insurance - I don't give a damn. That, as you point out, is up to you.
However, where I really REALLY care is when tossers with your attitude go out on the road and damage other people's property, or worse, injure or kill other innocent people and don't have any insurance - that leaves the victims stuffed and reliant on the MIB, and it puts the costs on to those of us that do obey the law.

As I say, it's the law, has been since early last century, and isn't going to change to suit selfish b***ards like you. I'd have a very special place for people caught driving without insurance (and it wouldn't be a smack on the wrist and a poxy fine that's a small fraction of what insurance would have cost), but sadly it wouldn't get past human rights limitations :( In fact, selfish b***ards like you shouldn't even be on the road, but unfortunately there's no test for that.

As an aside, a friend who's been working in London for a while says he's seen a couple of roadside checks where they have been pulling people over with no insurance. Rather than the normal process, they've been given the opportunity to show that they have insurance (you have to allow for 'foibles' in the system and genuine errors*), and if they couldn't show that, then they got to take their possessions out of the car and watch while it went into the crusher at the side of the road. Some of these cars weren't £200 bangers, they were like £20+k cars - ouch :shock:
A high profile way to make a statement.
* A colleague at work has a story of such a genuine error. His father had several cars, and when he sold one, he rang the insurance company to cancel the policy on it. However, the insurance company cancelled the wrong one ... Roll forwards a few months, his sister was pulled up as the car was flagged as uninsured. So despite having paid the premium, got a certificate etc, the car was technically uninsured - and even though the insurance company admitted straight away that it was their error, it took a couple of years to sort out and get the convictions quashed etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Ah yes, compulsory insurance cam in in 1930 according to that infallible :wink: source of information, Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_in ... ed_Kingdom

Note the link to the Selby crash where the insurance payout reached £22M, yes twenty two million quid - want to self insure that ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Heck_Rail_Crash

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:57 pm 
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simon...youre talking total @!##...the most careful drivers are the ones with third party only like myself..the ones who are fully comp like your business reps are the ones that are causing all the carnage because they know they can drive how they like because they have a bottomless safely net....insurance doesnt make the roads safer but the opposite..plus the fact that vehicles are built to go far too fast...so dont insult me with your bile or i'll drive up to cumbria and punch ya lights out


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:17 pm 
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There is one thing about being opinionated and a heated discussion ensues, but to threaten someone with physical abuse or violence is another, you are very out of order gasbo totally disgusting ... funny innit behind a computer screen or the wheel of a car and some people turn into total nasty people, computer rage ...thats what it is, phttt you should be carefull who you threaten really ... because most people I know can handle themselves very well indeed and one day one of your drive up and punch jobs may just well backfire on you, I really do think you should reconsider the physical threats old boy.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:23 pm 
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gasbo, I'm not going to report that post. Having it removed would deprive people of seeing first hand what a complete tit you are.

Just because you don't want to believe the truth doesn't make it "total @!##". There are thousands of accidents every year in the UK, and I'd reckon it being good odds to bet that the majority (by a long way) of the drivers involved all though they didn't need insurance, and it was all a big scam.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:58 pm 
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common sense to those who have brain cells to recognise it...

insurance scam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Car insurance is just another scam, guess not all that dissimilar to the money scam. Seems to have its origins in maritime law from around 16th C when sea faring vessels had to be insured against loss of cargo. As with a lot of these scams they seem to want to impose law of the sea onto law of the land, (large international corporations back and run maritime law).

As always we've been indoctrinated to think taking insurance is the right sensible thing to do. And not give it a second thought as to why.

Anyway its a scam for a number of reasons:

Poor take on the liabilities of the rich. A bit like a pyramid scheme.
Redlining used to control which type of demographies are aloud the freedom to travel.
Loss of privacy I don't really need to mention big brother. But your insurance documents contain all you personal data. They have these pate reading cameras that show big bro where you travel to and from. Some what akin to having to show your papers at each check point in Nazi Germany comes to mind.
When people pay insurance they have this illusion all their money goes into a big pot somewhere and it gets shelled out to people who need it. Well t don't. The spiv who owns Admiral has a personal fortune of 700 million, most goes to the other parasites, I know half the premium alone goes to sleazy lawyers, very little in real terms is given to those who need it.

Most insurance has clauses that makes it very easy for them not to shell out. From personal experience. I made a claim and it took 9 months, they tried every trick in the book not to pay, in the end I had to go to citizens advice to get help. This was a very straight forward case, someone bumped into the back of me in ASDA car park.

Not to mention the moral issue of criminalising people who can't afford to pay there bills when people are being squeezed until the pips squeak. The idea of car insurance sounds good, but the reality is its been turned into a protection racket run by greedy crooks and enforced by goons.


There's a lot more to this scam that warrants deeper attention. Driving is meant to fun and pleasurable, as always these creeps who run society inject fear and paranoia into it, as they do everything. To wrap it up its not about have to, its about choose to, to pay or not to pay its a choice and choices have consequences either way.

So simon read it several times and get back to me when you agree i am right because it is the truth unlike your garbage...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Think about it another way:

You don't have to pay tax and insurance and have to have a health check for walking along the pavement, you're still using the public roads!

You don't pay tax or insurance for riding a bike on a road.

or a horse for that matter.

You could even bounce along it on a pogo stick without any hassle off the rozza's .

All that's happened is these criminals have found a group of people that they think have money and is willing to hand it over without wanting to cause a fuss and/or is intimidated by petty thuggery if they don't. As always the police are there to protect you from crime by fucking you up and robbing you before the crooks do."Hello, ello ello, stand and deliver, your money or your life!" They're no different to highwaymen from a bygone era, but ironically said to be upholding the law when the freedom to travel freely, unhindered and with protection has been a basic right since well.., since there's been roads to travel on.

And then these spivs come along with their racketing and we just accept it a normal. If you think about it compulsory insurance is only a very recent thing, its interesting that nearly all developed countries in Europe and America brought it in at all the same time during the 30's, coincidence, don't think so. They do that when its a scam, all at the same time, to normalise it.

If you did want to drive with out insurance then, keep your car use to a minimum, keep it off the motorways, main A roads and cities, and you should be ok. Secondly the government keeps a pool of money to one side for this reason, this was how it was originally done. If you pay a premium part of that premium pays for uninsured drivers. So you're paying twice for one car another part of the scam.

Think about it, if you take out car insurance, Mot and Road Tax, and you drive an average car you're basically buying a new car every year. Take out home insurance and content insurance and it don't cost you the price of a new house each year. Most accidents happen in the home. So where dose the money go? To their wall street chums, perhaps, historically the two are linked. The london stock exchange would underwrite the cost of insurance for sea faring vessels during the 17c, number of life's on board and commodities.

I hate spiv scams they're like onions, the more you try and unwrap them the more you cry.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:38 pm 
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threats of violence wont be tolerated, gasbo you have warning, one more and your banned.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:10 pm 
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john_d wrote:
threats of violence wont be tolerated, gasbo you have warning, one more and your banned.

No, he's starting to get quite entertaining now with his conspiracy theory.

I find it interesting that he thinks it should be OK for people who can't afford insurance to not have it. If they can't afford insurance, I'm interested to see his explanation for how they'd pay out when they have an accident.

His idea of how insurance works is "quite interesting" as well. So top people at insurance companies are well paid - so what, the people at the top of almost every big business are quite well off. If he's interested I'll explain to him how it actually works - but I doubt he's interested since he clearly has no interest in facts that don't support his conspiracy theories.

The thing is, car insurance is not compulsory. Really, you are under no compulsion to have it. Don't like it, and all the other costs, then you have the choice not to own/use a car. If you do choose to own/use a car, then don't bleat about what the law requires you to do/have for the protection of others. Note that it is almost all about protection of others.
Presumably you also thing the MoT is just a scam to keep your car off the road ? Well if your car can't pass an MoT then it shouldn't be on the road - and the reason (most) things are in the MoT is because it's clear that a far from insignificant proportion of owners would not keep their vehicle roadworthy without it.

Again, I don't really care if you want to kill yourself (apart from the cost to me as a taxpayer that results from an accident). The problem is that far too many people take out someone else in doing so.

All this started from complaints about the insurance loading from fitting an LPG conversion. I didn't pay a penny extra for my insurance. Nor have a number of people here. The simple fact, that too many people don't seem to want to understand' is that each insurer is free to set it's own underwriting policies based of the target market it want to attract. Some are keen to attract "prestige" customers, some only want to insure standard vehicles, some are biased to the rural market, and so on, ... If you get a stupid quote (loading) for having LPG, vote with your wallet and go elsewhere.
Trust me, compared to some markets, car insurance in this country is about as free as you'll ever see.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:06 pm 
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lets go back to 1976 when i first started driving... bought my first car for £300 and bought my insurance for £100?

Now fast forward to 2012..you can still pick up a banger for £300...what would insurance cost now for a 17 year old...£2000?

so what happens we have young kids driving without insurance,probably with no licence either...basically they couldnt give a making love and i dont blame them because the system doesnt give a making love for them...the elite running this country want the roads for themselves so are pricing the poor off it...if you agree with this system then you are very selfish..they also invent scams like global warming to fleece us yet again with emmission laws..i'm afraid something has to give...either the elite play ball or they will suffer the consequences ...all empires come to an end


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:50 pm 
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well thats completely different to what you were on about earlier innit !! so looking at your own personal insurance over the years back in 1976 you were paying £100, fast forward to 2012 and (I assume your actually paying insurance, even though you disagree with it) at a guess your paying around £300, hasnt gone up much has it !! but what has changed are the cars, back in 1978 when I started to drive my first car was a Vauxhall Viva HB 1159cc, about 50hp ... 0 to 60 in around 3 days had a sharp cassette player but no boom box ummph ummph ummph ummph ummph a nice lil solex carb or whatever shitty little 12" wheels n rusty chrome hub caps, what do they drive now ?? just about anything and pretty much well around the 100hp + ... music louder than a rock concert all injection, turbo charged with modified suspension, dustbin lid exhausts, dump valves to make it go pssst cos it sounds good so they gotta drive it like a maniac just to get it to go pssst and then blast around all night burning gallons of petrol and actually going nowhere fast and then after all the speeding, the accidents, killing people, and putting other peoples lives at risk they and you wonder why the insurance is £1700 + ... £100 to me back then was a seriously large amount of cash, im too tired to do the sums but in nearly 40 years the cost for young drivers hasnt gone up that much compared to how much more powerfull and faster todays modern cars are.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:43 am 
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DW has hit at least one nail on the head. £100 in 1976 was a seriously large amount of money. I bought my first house in 1976 at a cost of just under £11,000, that same house now is worth around £170,000. So it follows that anything that cost £100 in 1976 is going to cost around £1,700 now. At the same time, take home pay was roughly £50 a week so your insurance at £100 was two weeks pay. What's two weeks pay these days? It's called inflation and has nothing to do with your profiteering theories.

Insurance is much the same as bookmaking. If a favourite winner is given odds of 5/4, then what you get on a payout is much the same as what you put in. Insurance works the same. If it's a dead cert that a 17 year old in his kwalitee motor (check out www.barryboys.co.uk for some wonderful examples) is going to be involved in an accident then the amount he puts in needs to be as much as he is likely to take out. It never will be because the average cost of a claim is going to be far more than any premium paid by anyone, but it is going to go quite some way towards it. The fact that some are lucky and aren't involved in an accident means that there is enough money there to pay the claims with a bit left over. Equally, the more experienced driver who, on average is going to be involved in an accident of some sort around every 10 years or so, pays a premium of around 1/10th of the average cost of a claim.

My daughters insurance, despite her being a year older and having a further years no claims discount, almost doubled last year. When she queried it was told that it was due to the number of claims from accidents in the snow. The fact that she hadn't had one was irrelevant. Rather than only put up the premiums for those that had, which would have caused them to try to shop around and go elsewhere, they put up everyone's. Is that fair? Probably not but their income must exceed their outgoings somehow. They aren't a charity.

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'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:27 pm 
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demonicwillow wrote:
well thats completely different to what you were on about earlier innit !! so looking at your own personal insurance over the years back in 1976 you were paying £100, fast forward to 2012 and (I assume your actually paying insurance, even though you disagree with it) at a guess your paying around £300, hasnt gone up much has it !! but what has changed are the cars, back in 1978 when I started to drive my first car was a Vauxhall Viva HB 1159cc, about 50hp ... 0 to 60 in around 3 days had a sharp cassette player but no boom box ummph ummph ummph ummph ummph a nice lil solex carb or whatever shitty little 12" wheels n rusty chrome hub caps, what do they drive now ?? just about anything and pretty much well around the 100hp + ... music louder than a rock concert all injection, turbo charged with modified suspension, dustbin lid exhausts, dump valves to make it go pssst cos it sounds good so they gotta drive it like a maniac just to get it to go pssst and then blast around all night burning gallons of petrol and actually going nowhere fast and then after all the speeding, the accidents, killing people, and putting other peoples lives at risk they and you wonder why the insurance is £1700 + ... £100 to me back then was a seriously large amount of cash, im too tired to do the sums but in nearly 40 years the cost for young drivers hasnt gone up that much compared to how much more powerfull and faster todays modern cars are.



no i still pay around £100...youve just got to be abit savvy


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Dont you mean dodgy :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Another take on insurance is to look at it from a different angle.

I have car insurance, not just because it's the law, but because if there was a claim against me (note that I didn't say "if I have an accident" - it's not the same thing) then I wouldn't be in a position to pay it unless it was trivially small. I do have an excess which is larger than the mandatory excess imposed by the insurer, because I could cope with small claims (or part thereof) and in return for standing part of the risk myself, I pay a lower premium.
As well as the slight reduction in risk to the insurer (ie they'll pay out a bit less, and not at all on very small claims), there's probably an element gasbo alluded to earlier - if I have a higher excess, then I stand to lose more in the event of a claim so I am likely to be more careful.

Similarly, I have house insurance. I'm not legally required to (though the mortgage lender requires it), but if something happened to it then I couldn't afford to repair/rebuild it. So I have insurance - ie in bookmaking terms I'm "laying off" the risk to others (an insurance company, possibly backed up by one or more syndicates) who have the financial reserves to meet a "big ticket" event.

gasbo wrote:
no i still pay around £100...youve just got to be abit savvy

So, you only pay around £100 for your car insurance, and you're complaining about the cost. Sheesh. Some people are just looking for excuses to be mad for no reason.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:22 pm 
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its not about me..i'm intelligent enough to rip the insurance companies off...its the poor kids who cant afford to drive and therefore get a decent job...our/your generation are very selfish..they are responsible for making it impossible for young people to afford a home....the twats who go to university and think they are so smart because they get a masonic degree when in reality they are just keeping the corrupt system in play..i mean they cant even work out 911 or 7/7 because they are so brainwashed...dont insult my intelligence by saying its a conspiracy theory because it isnt..i understand physics unlike the morons running our governments


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:14 pm 
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what on earth has a student getting a bullet in the head got to do with 9/11 or insurance ?? m8t nothing will ever bring back the world trade centre as it was ... not ever, and i for one wont be buying any of that money spinning truth @!##, I along with thousands of other people watched the horrific events of that day unfold as it happened, I can tell you exactly what I was doing on that day, and I can name someone I knew very well who sadly perished there on that day, but I wont cos I dont need to or want to, tis quite obvious who is brainwashed here, and dont tar every university student with your same deluded brush either, my kids go to uni and are determined to make something of their lives and they certainly aint twats :evil:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:12 am 
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gasbo wrote:
i'm intelligent enough to rip the insurance companies off...
Trying to keep it vaguely on topic, and ignoring the remaining conspiracy theory bullshit, meaning you are committing fraud. You've already mentioned driving a car over 12 years old and insuring on a Classic car policy. Presumably, to keep the premium down to £100 you've gone for the minimum mileage allowance per year? What is it on your policy? I've got 3,000 miles a year on the one Classic Policy I've got but could have got the premium lower by going for 1,000. So what do you do? Disconnect the speedo cable so it shows that you've only done the allowed limit and not more or do you use the old trick of a power drill on the cable to wind it back? I bet you've only got social, domestic and pleasure use too but still use the car to go to work and back. So you aren't even insured then as you need commuting adding to it. Oddly enough, as Classic car policies are intended for just that, Classic or collectors cars, I've not seen one insurer that will give commuting cover on such a policy. This always assumes that you do work of course.

I've just realised, this is the man that runs a Maestro. How the hell can anyone claim that a Maestro is a Classic? However, I doubt you'll keep it much longer. Now pre-1960 cars no longer require an MoT, I presume you'll be trading up to something older.

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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