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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
You'll need to check with a meter but it looks like you have a wasted spark system so it is actually 2 coils in one package each driving 2 cylinders. With the ignition on one of the wires will have permanent 12 volts on it and you connect to one of the others to pick up the ignition pulses. When you set the system up using the adapter and software, you'll have to tell the LPG ECU what ignition system it is connected to.

Are you saying i'm a wire short of a picknick and only 3 of my cylenders run?!!!??
No, read what I wrote. Rather than having one ignition coil and a distributor or a coil for each cylinder, the cheapskates at Ford fit two coils in one block. One feeds 2 cylinders and the other feeds the other 2. So you have 3 wires, a common ignition switched live for both coils and a pulse wire for each coil. As John_D has pointed out the middle one is the live so you connect your brown wire from the LPG loom to either of the others, it doesn't matter which. Then when you set the LPG system up with your computer you tell it that you have a dual coil wasted spark ignition system.
Toolless wrote:
I did but it got a bit damaged later on
One is marked in green with 3 pins making 5 plugs in total but it has no wires to it so I dont know what it dose
The colors for the above are as follows
first plug blu/red red/why yel
plug with 3 pins no wires
2nd plug blu/red grn
3rd plug blu/red red
4th plug blu/red blue
That looks like part of the original Vauxhall bits so the colours are Vauxhall ones and completely irrelevant to your Ford or the LPG system. You now have a diagram of how to connect to the petrol injectors, you posted it originally and I repeated it in my last post. Follow it.
Toolless wrote:
Dont know what this one dose
Neither do I. You took it off, where was it connected to?
Toolless wrote:
Its all wired up into the ECU but I dont see the cars ecu on the diagram
You won't. The diagram tells you where you need to connect to, the petrol injector wires, the ignition coil, the lambda sensor, the battery. Whether you choose to connect to various bits scattered around the engine bay or connect to the other ends of the wires at the petrol ECU end is entirely up to you.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:11 pm 
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OK i have striped off the wire cable on the ECU
OK now I have tidied it up there are no wires going to the cars ECU
All the wire coming from the LPG loom are to the vauxhall omegas ignition rail are as followed
Image
If you look at the of the diagram you can see those little long oblongs
Those are where the wires have need soldered by someone
So all I need to do is connect the the wires at the top of the schematic to my injectors right?
But I dont know what order that rail is in


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Toolless wrote:
But I dont know what order that rail is in


Ow weight a min just trying to get my head around this and the other schematic


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:08 pm 
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You've got the diagram, this one, it's pretty clear. The colours match with the wires coming from the LPG loom, just find the wires going from the petrol ECU to the petrol injectors and connect as shown. Next you'll be asking which cylinder is number 1! Sling the Vauxhall bit where it belongs, you have a Ford so they will be completely different.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Gilbertd wrote:
Next you'll be asking which cylinder is number 1! Sling the Vauxhall bit where it belongs, you have a Ford so they will be completely different.

Yes but maybe John will know as he owns the same engine
It can only be a 50/50 guess
Or dose the length of the spark plugs give it away i.e the shortest being the first to get power and therefore number 1
And also I'm going to need to know which wire do i wire it to on my injectors
As each injector has 2 wires, one of them always black
blk/brn
red/brn
brn/grn
brn/yel

Also had another look at my kit and found 2 cables of 3 wires that wear chopped off right at the end of the ECU cable
gray & purple and black
This is all the wires that are loses and missing from the equasion
So with out looking at the wiring schematic I post before
I cant find the wires to go to the ignition coil labdra sensor tank and switch est?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:57 pm 
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I just looked at this post you really are not going to take that car onto Britain's roads are you!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:12 pm 
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How can I make this any simpler? PERHAPS IF I WRITE IN LARGE CAPITALS IT MAY START TO SINK IN?
Look at the bloody diagram! The petrol injectors will have one common positive wire and another trigger wire which will be a different colour on each injector. Connect your red/white wire from the LPG loom to the common wire and then cut the others and connect the remaining pairs of wires as shown. Fords normally number 1 cylinder as the front of the engine, that's the end furthest away from the flywheel.

The purple and grey are the lambda sensor wires, remember the ones on the diagram I translated for you? All Black wires in the LPG loom are earths. If you can't find the others it probably means you chopped them off when you took the system off the other car although you will often find that some wires that appear black have a black sheath over a coloured wire.

If you have chopped them off, tough. Maybe that will be the end to this farce.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:16 pm 
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dizzyd wrote:
I just looked at this post you really are not going to take that car onto Britain's roads are you!
Hopefully not. From the pictures it looks barely roadworthy in the first place and with any luck by the time he's finished botching everything he touches, it'll never run again.

They reckon that anyone capable of fitting a stereo should be capable of wiring an LPG system. I suspect Mr Clueless isn't even capable of changing a lightbulb.....

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:45 pm 
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Gilbertd wrote:



Gilbertd wrote:
The petrol injectors will have one common positive wire and another trigger wire which will be a different colour on each injector.

So wheres bloody earth then!

Gilbertd wrote:
Connect your red/white wire from the LPG loom to the common wire

What a common wire

Gilbertd wrote:
If you can't find the others it probably means you chopped them off when you took the system off the other car

If you have chopped them off, tough. Maybe that will be the end to this farce.


No it dosent
Coz if I did then I would not be able to find the chopped off ends
Why do you think the omegas ecu was tangled up together


dizzyd wrote:
I just looked at this post you really are not going to take that car onto Britain's roads are you!

Please tell me why in your logical fountain of knolage in fitting LPG systems
Why you think what im doing is so wrong and no not just based on banter posted before

Gilbertd wrote:
They reckon that anyone capable of fitting a stereo should be capable of wiring an LPG system. I suspect Mr Clueless isn't even capable of changing a lightbulb.....


Dose that mean switch every wire over from one kind of plug to the other or just hear say tital tatal


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:51 pm 
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Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
The petrol injectors will have one common positive wire and another trigger wire which will be a different colour on each injector.
So wheres bloody earth then!
On the bloody trigger wire you dickhead!
Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
Connect your red/white wire from the LPG loom to the common wire
What a common wire
The common positive on the petrol injectors. Just like on the diagram.
Toolless wrote:
dizzyd wrote:
I just looked at this post you really are not going to take that car onto Britain's roads are you!
Please tell me why in your logical fountain of knolage in fitting LPG systems
Why you think what im doing is so wrong and no not just based on banter posted before
Because your car looks a pile of scrap, you're attempting to fit a kit that you ripped out of a car in a scrapyard, you didn't, as you were advised, make any notes of where and how everything was connected, you have no idea of how it is supposed to work, you have no idea if it was working before you ripped it out, you have no clue, and haven't bothered to ask, of the safety standards that it must be installed to, you are so stupid as to be incapable of understanding simple instructions, you can't read perfectly clear diagrams, anything I've missed? I'm surprised you ever managed to pass a driving test (if you ever have) as you have to do a theory test these days and you seem incapable of understanding written English (or writing it for that matter).

Look, why not just give up now? Like Rossko, I've had enough.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:05 am 
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Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
Next you'll be asking which cylinder is number 1! Sling the Vauxhall bit where it belongs, you have a Ford so they will be completely different.

Yes but maybe John will know as he owns the same engine
It can only be a 50/50 guess
Or dose the length of the spark plugs give it away i.e the shortest being the first to get power and therefore number 1


firing order makes no difference, but for reference its 1-3-4-2 (1 being the cylinder at the timing belt)

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Last edited by john_d on Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:59 am 
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May I commend both Rossko and Gilbert for their patience and diligence - I have just read the whole post, and if it isn`t a `wind-up`, then lord help us all - I can only hope I`m a long way away when the ignition (truer in this case than most!) key is turned.
Seriously as a DIYer myself I resent the attitude of the `trade`, however if this case is representitive then maybe they have reason for their position.
Neil


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:36 am 
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It's a kind of wind-up, an unusual sort of troll, but I reckon it works like this:

Like all trolls, it is ego-driven, and is cleverer than the rest of us. That gives it a problem ; despite being cleverer, it needs to ask ordinary mortals about something. Ego is the problem, it can't come straight out and ask (how embarassing!) so instead we go through this charade. It pretends to be clueless ('Toolless'?) from the outset and asks lots of drivel, with careful misspellings, with the things it really needs to know buried in amongst the rubbish. That way it has a jolly good laugh at how clever it is, tricking everyone and winding them up, but still finds out what its after without having to admit to itself it needed to ask us fools.

The ego peeks out here and there - look at the first post here, it is to educate the rest of us. If the job gets done to its satisfaction, it'll be no thanks to anyone here of course, just another demonstration of how clever it is despite us fools. If there is confusion, it is some other fool's fault for not providing the right information; no way does it need to find out anything for itself, not even the wiring diagram for its own car - why haven't we done that for it yet, hmm?!

The same ego makes it damn dangerous. Because it is cleverer than the rest of us, it knows better in every way. For example, once decided that it's okay to use orange barbeque hose for the pipework that's that, end of discussion. It knows all the risks better than us; exactly the person that drives around uninsured because it is too good to bother with that sort of thing. Not so much a case of 'rules for the guidance of wise men' as being so clever the rules don't apply.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:33 pm 
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Ar; I see you fall foul of the trap

After reading the last few posts and giving it careful though
I have decided to spend more time reading the manuals and what I have in front of my and looking at the equipment I have then asking questions on hear
Taking the wires and gas ecu out of the car having a proper look at it I found all the cut wires I need
And from reading the manuals in front of me I feel as I have made good progress today
And I'm sorry if I have offended anyone
But after all this there is still some issues I have with the wiring I cant make out


There is no tank level sensor on this tank only a solenoid
Image


Hear we have 4 spare wires on one loom
red brn blu blk
It dose not say what they are on the diagram but I have a hunch its for the switch and fule gauge?
Image


I looked at my engine again and on the ignition coil pack it tells you in one to 4 what cylinder number they are
Should I just cut the signal wire on them (thats the wires with a trace color on them) and solder my lpg wire on to them so we have a T piece of wires
Thats 1 wire from the lpg loom joined onto the petrol injectors wire

And the ignition coil wire
Had another look at my hanes manual
And we have grn/red grn/yel goes to the EDIS modal what ever that is
And one black going to the ECU
In the manual non of them go to earth
But I'm guessing black is earth and the wire we need for our system


Now there is the wires that go to the cars ECU that need to be dealt with
Where on my cars ECU do the wires in the below drawing go
Image


Thanks
Toolless


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:23 am 
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Toolless wrote:
And I'm sorry if I have offended anyone
But after all this there is still some issues I have with the wiring I cant make out
Not offended, just highly frustrated that someone doesn't seem capable of following simple instructions. I'm probably going to regret continuing to reply, but here goes.
Toolless wrote:
There is no tank level sensor on this tank only a solenoid
Image
but this one did have. Is it a different tank or have you taken it off? They both appear to have Tomassetto multivalves so you could use the gauge from this one on the other tank. They are driven by a magnet attached to the float inside the tank so there is no actual connection, it's done by magnetism.
Image
Toolless wrote:
Hear we have 4 spare wires on one loom
red brn blu blk
It dose not say what they are on the diagram but I have a hunch its for the switch and fule gauge?
Probably, you must have chopped the off rather than removing the loom in one piece as you were told. Does the switch have the same colour wires coming out of it?
Toolless wrote:
I looked at my engine again and on the ignition coil pack it tells you in one to 4 what cylinder number they are
Should I just cut the signal wire on them (thats the wires with a trace color on them) and solder my lpg wire on to them so we have a T piece of wires
Thats 1 wire from the lpg loom joined onto the petrol injectors wire

And the ignition coil wire
Had another look at my hanes manual
And we have grn/red grn/yel goes to the EDIS modal what ever that is
And one black going to the ECU
In the manual non of them go to earth
But I'm guessing black is earth and the wire we need for our system
You seem to have got ignition coil and injectors confused. On the ignition coil there are 3 wires, a black and two others. The EDIS is the Electronic Discharge Ignition System which feeds pulses to the coils (as it is actually 2 coils in one plastic block). The brown from the LPG loom needs to be connected to one of these wires from the EDIS, it doesn't matter which as it just needs a signal to show the engine is running.

The connections to the injectors are as shown on the diagram below.
Toolless wrote:
Now there is the wires that go to the cars ECU that need to be dealt with
Where on my cars ECU do the wires in the below drawing go
Image
You don't connect to the ECU, it is easier to pick the wiring up at the injectors themselves. The injectors each have 2 wires going to them. One of these wires will be the same colour on every injector, this is the common 12V feed. Connect the red/white wire from the LPG loom to this wire on an injector (it doesn't matter which one even though the diagram shows it coming off the injector on cylinder 4). Then, taking number 1 cylinder first (as you now know which is number 1 from the markings on the coil) get the other wire and cut it. Connect the blue wire from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the injector and the blue/black from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the ECU. Then do the same with the other 3 injectors and the other 3 pairs of wires from the LPG loom. Make sure that the LPG injectors feed the correct cylinders, so the one marked as A feeds cylinder 1, B feeds cylinder number 2 and so on, just following the diagram.

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'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Gilbertd wrote:
They are driven by a magnet attached to the float inside the tank so there is no actual connection, it's done by magnetism.


So no actual wires needed to go to engine bay
I just leave the wires in the engine bay for this blank


Gilbertd wrote:
Probably, you must have chopped the off rather than removing the loom in one piece as you were told. Does the switch have the same colour wires coming out of it?


It did but like the magnetic tank sensor I have lost the switch


Gilbertd wrote:
You seem to have got ignition coil and injectors confused. On the ignition coil there are 3 wires, a black and two others. The EDIS is the Electronic Discharge Ignition System which feeds pulses to the coils (as it is actually 2 coils in one plastic block). The brown from the LPG loom needs to be connected to one of these wires from the EDIS, it doesn't matter which as it just needs a signal to show the engine is running.


Just to controdict what you said before in the diagram you drew
'ignition coil brown wire needs negative or ignition coil'


Gilbertd wrote:
You don't connect to the ECU, it is easier to pick the wiring up at the injectors themselves. The injectors each have 2 wires going to them. One of these wires will be the same colour on every injector, this is the common 12V feed. Connect the red/white wire from the LPG loom to this wire on an injector (it doesn't matter which one even though the diagram shows it coming off the injector on cylinder 4). Then, taking number 1 cylinder first (as you now know which is number 1 from the markings on the coil) get the other wire and cut it. Connect the blue wire from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the injector and the blue/black from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the ECU. Then do the same with the other 3 injectors and the other 3 pairs of wires from the LPG loom. Make sure that the LPG injectors feed the correct cylinders, so the one marked as A feeds cylinder 1, B feeds cylinder number 2 and so on, just following the diagram.



I relly dont understand this at all
But do I connect the NON black wire from the lpg kit to the signal wires of the petrol injectors that the NON black wires on my car
And connect the black trace wire from the lpg kit to the constent 12v feed wires on my petrol injectors thats that black wires on the petrol injectors


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Toolless wrote:
So no actual wires needed to go to engine bay
I just leave the wires in the engine bay for this blank


no, it is also the change over switch

Toolless wrote:
Just to controdict what you said before in the diagram you drew
'ignition coil brown wire needs negative or ignition coil'


the brown wire is for the rev counter and needs to go to either the left or right wire

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:01 pm 
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I knew this was a mistake......
Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
They are driven by a magnet attached to the float inside the tank so there is no actual connection, it's done by magnetism.
So no actual wires needed to go to engine bay
I just leave the wires in the engine bay for this blank
The connection from the float inside the tank to the gauge on the outside of the tank is done by magnetism. The gauge on the outside of the tank supplies an electrical signal to the gas ECU so it displays on the switch that you've lost. If you don't want a fuel gauge for the gas, then yes, leave the green and white wires under the bonnet.
Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
Probably, you must have chopped the off rather than removing the loom in one piece as you were told. Does the switch have the same colour wires coming out of it?

It did but like the magnetic tank sensor I have lost the switch
Oh dear, isn't that a shame, you may as well give up now then. You can probably buy a switch on it's own (in fact, I've got a spare one I could sell you but I'm not going to, you got yourself in the sh*t, you can get yourself out of it) but you still won't be able to use it because you don't have the little 4 pin connector that goes into it and don't know which wires go to which pin.
Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
You seem to have got ignition coil and injectors confused. On the ignition coil there are 3 wires, a black and two others. The EDIS is the Electronic Discharge Ignition System which feeds pulses to the coils (as it is actually 2 coils in one plastic block). The brown from the LPG loom needs to be connected to one of these wires from the EDIS, it doesn't matter which as it just needs a signal to show the engine is running.

Just to controdict what you said before in the diagram you drew
'ignition coil brown wire needs negative or ignition coil'
Not a contadiction at all. The common wire on the coils is the ignition switched supply, just because Ford chose to use black wire doesn't mean it's earth, perhaps they had lots of spare black wire? To make the coils generate sparks you switch the earth side on and off so the pulses on the wires from the EDIS are pulsed earths. As John-D has quite correctly pointed out, this brown wire is needed for the rev counter in the LPG software that you will be running on your laptop and also as an indcation to tell the LPG ECU that the engine is running. Without it, the ECU will never switch the gas on because it doesn't know the engine is running. It's called a fail safe so when you lose control of the car on a bend due to the extra weight of the LPG tank hanging out the back of the boot and the engine cuts out, it shuts off the gas supply so you don't become a barbeque.
Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
You don't connect to the ECU, it is easier to pick the wiring up at the injectors themselves. The injectors each have 2 wires going to them. One of these wires will be the same colour on every injector, this is the common 12V feed. Connect the red/white wire from the LPG loom to this wire on an injector (it doesn't matter which one even though the diagram shows it coming off the injector on cylinder 4). Then, taking number 1 cylinder first (as you now know which is number 1 from the markings on the coil) get the other wire and cut it. Connect the blue wire from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the injector and the blue/black from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the ECU. Then do the same with the other 3 injectors and the other 3 pairs of wires from the LPG loom. Make sure that the LPG injectors feed the correct cylinders, so the one marked as A feeds cylinder 1, B feeds cylinder number 2 and so on, just following the diagram.

I relly dont understand this at all
But do I connect the NON black wire from the lpg kit to the signal wires of the petrol injectors that the NON black wires on my car
And connect the black trace wire from the lpg kit to the constent 12v feed wires on my petrol injectors thats that black wires on the petrol injectors
Now you are trolling. I have no idea what colours Ford chose to use on the petrol injectors on your car although I do remember that you mentioned them in a previous post but in all honesty, I can't be bothered to go back and find the post to tell you. You've got a perfectly clear diagram and an explanation that a 5 year old girl could understand, get on with it or give up (which, unless you find the switch, you'll have to do anyway).

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Toolless wrote:
.. like the magnetic tank sensor I have lost the switch


You didn't lose the tank sensor, you appear to have smashed it off. That broken plastic vapour box will need renewing too, for safety reasons, and don't you dare let anyone else ride in that car unless you do. The box needs to be intact to minimise the risks to occupants if there are seeps (e.g. misused orange hose leaks). To renew the box you will have to remove the multivalve from the tank.

Anyway, having lost the switch I think that's the end of the project. New switches are available, but you've also cut off and lost the little connector on the wiring, so a new one won't do you much good. No, you can't use an old light switch; it is not just a switch, there's a custom chip inside.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:35 pm 
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Well i have wired up all the electrics on the system today except the injector rail
Which I do not have a clue what I'm doing
Just to make things as simple as poss I have drawn a diagram with all the final wire I have from my LPG system and the wires on the petrol injectors
I presume they all wire up together
Could someone please tell me which way round they go

Thanks again
Toolless

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