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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:35 am 
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Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

Ford Escort MK6, 4 cylinder 1.6 multi point injection Zetec engine

OK everyone I have decided to fit this kit
And have decided to start a new thread and put every thing I'm doing on this thread until the conversion is done
Maybe if it turns out to be a good story the admin can make it a sticky thread

Done a little so far so hear is what I have done

This is my engine bay
Image

At the top left of the bay I have fitted my vaporizer and injector
Just with cable ties at the moment until I have decided its correct
Image
Image
Image

Can anyone remind me what this thing dose again and what do I connect it to
Image

The ECU is located in the bottom left of the engine bay
Image

The gas hose runes down the top right of the engine bay and under the car
Image


The inlet manifold; do I drill holes and cut thread on the crosses marked in red
And insert my gas tail/barb pipe fitting for the gas inlet
Image

Or should I drill thread and fit them hear as its closer to the engine
Image

I fitted the tank to the car after supper time today
And no, no cable ties, But with 10mm nut and bolts
Image
Image


Last edited by Toolless on Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:31 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:53 am 
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Now I need to attach the water pipes to my vaporizer
On my radiator system where do I plumb my inlet and out let hoses to?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:18 am 
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Toolless wrote:
Can anyone remind me what this thing dose again and what do I connect it to


that looks like the map/p1 sensor?

Toolless wrote:
Or should I drill thread and fit them hear as its closer to the engine


yes, the other place you were oing to mount them is 6 inches from the petrol injectors

whats all that grey and orange hose for? not for the kit your fitting i guess?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:19 am 
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Toolless wrote:
Now I need to attach the water pipes to my vaporizer
On my radiator system where do I plumb my inlet and out let hoses to?


you dont, you take it from the heater matrix

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:47 am 
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Quote:
Maybe if it turns out to be a good story the admin can make it a sticky thread
You've got balls, I'll give you that..... Like your previous threads though, more likely to be added to a Thread of the Week heading if we had one. I can see this will run and run....

By 10mm bolts for attaching the tank, I hope you mean 10mm diameter and not 10mm hex size. Having that tank hit you in the back of the head in an accident could be interesting.

The manifold needs drilling as close to the petrol injectors as you can get so your first option is much too far away.

The Map/PI sensor needs connecting to vacuum from the inlet manifold. I thought you had an installation manual? That will tell you.

The coolant connections for the vaporiser need to be connected into the cars heater pipework. Find the two pipes that lead from the engine bay to inside the car, cut them and put T pieces in. Connect hoses to the T pieces and run those to your vaporiser.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:17 am 
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The tank is quite heavy. Normal practice is to fit it more forward in the car boot, up against the rear seats. It's better for the car balance.
It is important to set it with the valve the right way up and at the correct angle.

Have you checked what your insurers need to know, before making the car uninsurable?

The picture entitled "The gas hose runs down ..." is a bit scary, but we need to wait and see what the orange hose is about.

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Last edited by rossko on Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:25 am 
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Good point Ross, they don't normally have the multivalve on the top do they?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Gilbertd wrote:
Good point Ross, they don't normally have the multivalve on the top do they?



30degree from horizontal usually.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:04 pm 
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Gilbertd wrote:
You've got balls, I'll give you that..... Like your previous threads though, more likely to be added to a Thread of the Week heading if we had one. I can see this will run and run....


But this thread ant as dangerous as blowing ones self up with mix and match LPG CNG and heating gas bottles up...yet

Gilbertd wrote:
By 10mm bolts for attaching the tank, I hope you mean 10mm diameter and not 10mm hex size. Having that tank hit you in the back of the head in an accident could be interesting.
.


Thats correct 10mm thread
You dont think I was that daft


john_d wrote:
you dont, you take it from the heater matrix

Gilbertd wrote:
The coolant connections for the vaporiser need to be connected into the cars heater pipework. Find the two pipes that lead from the engine bay to inside the car, cut them and put T pieces in. Connect hoses to the T pieces and run those to your vaporiser.


As you can see in the photos is the pipes leading to that
Not the best of places to work as I'm working under the car
I cant tell which one is in and which one is out
Dose it matter which way round they are plumbed to the vaporizer
They look to me to be 1/2" bore but I'm not sure; I need to know coz when I cut the hoses and insert my T piece if its the wrong size then I'm with out my car until I order the right size
It looks like 1/2" bore but that is just guessing and could be 5/8 or even 3/4 bore
What kind of pressure and temperature goes through these pipes just so I know what kind of hose to order?

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

rossko wrote:
The tank is quite heavy. Normal practice is to fit it more forward in the car boot, up against the rear seats. It's better for the car balance.
It is important to set it with the valve the right way up and at the correct angle.


I guess having it that far back will just sink the rear of the cars shockers when tank is full
Maybe i should put in on the axle

john_d wrote:
yes, the other place you were oing to mount them is 6 inches from the petrol injectors

Gilbertd wrote:
The manifold needs drilling as close to the petrol injectors as you can get so your first option is much too far away.


Well the second place I marked above is the same as marked in red in the photos below
The yellow circles are where the inlet fuel pipe enters and the bypass return leaves
We cant see each injector so to get even closer to them should I remove the fuel rail and start thinking about drilling there or should I just stick to the air inlet manifold marked in red?

Image
Image


Gilbertd wrote:
The Map/PI sensor needs connecting to vacuum from the inlet manifold. I thought you had an installation manual? That will tell you.

Are you mean where the red crosses are
Forgot about that manual must dig it out from my computer somewhere


john_d wrote:
whats all that grey and orange hose for? not for the kit your fitting i guess?

rossko wrote:
The picture entitled "The gas hose runs down ..." is a bit scary, but we need to wait and see what the orange hose is about.
[/quote]

Nope just some gas and oxygen hoses for my brazing gun along with some other tolls i left in there


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Toolless wrote:
But this thread ant as dangerous as blowing ones self up with mix and match LPG CNG and heating gas bottles up...yet
Yet.....
Toolless wrote:
Thats correct 10mm thread
You dont think I was that daft.
You never know, see the answer above!
Toolless wrote:
As you can see in the photos is the pipes leading to that
Not the best of places to work as I'm working under the car
I cant tell which one is in and which one is out
Dose it matter which way round they are plumbed to the vaporizer
They look to me to be 1/2" bore but I'm not sure; I need to know coz when I cut the hoses and insert my T piece if its the wrong size then I'm with out my car until I order the right size
It looks like 1/2" bore but that is just guessing and could be 5/8 or even 3/4 bore
What kind of pressure and temperature goes through these pipes just so I know what kind of hose to order?
They are usually 16mm inside diameter. You just need a couple of plastic T pieces and some lengths of heater hose. There's not that much pressure and the temperature shouldn't get much above boiling. The flow will come from the other side of the thermostat to the top hose, so you should be able to trace them back to work out which is which. The manual will tell you which is the inlet on the vaporiser
Toolless wrote:
I guess having it that far back will just sink the rear of the cars shockers when tank is full
Maybe i should put in on the axle
It'll squat down at the back but that is the least of your worries. What happens when somebody runs into the back of you (or you decide to use it for ramraiding)? Either the tank breaks free and hits you in the back of the head or it ruptures and fills the car with liquid propane.
Toolless wrote:
Well the second place I marked above is the same as marked in red in the photos below
The yellow circles are where the inlet fuel pipe enters and the bypass return leaves
We cant see each injector so to get even closer to them should I remove the fuel rail and start thinking about drilling there or should I just stick to the air inlet manifold marked in red?
They need to be as close as possible to the petrol injectors so where you put them is up to you. Maybe somebody who has done a conversion on a Zetec will tell you where they need to go. Personally I don't like Fords and I've only ever (briefly) owned 2, which makes them about 0.5% of all the cars I've owned.
Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
The Map/PI sensor needs connecting to vacuum from the inlet manifold. I thought you had an installation manual? That will tell you.
Are you mean where the red crosses are
Forgot about that manual must dig it out from my computer somewhere
No, not where the red crosses are. This needs to be close to the throttle butterfly so can come off the plenum chamber, the complete opposite to the injectors. There may already be a vacuum take off in that area in which case you just need to put a T piece in there.

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'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:11 pm 
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errm, so what exactly is this "gas hose" that runs under the car?

----

For hot water hose, use "hot water hose" or "car heater hose" sold per metre at autofactors. 15/16mm bore will mate up with your vaporiser. Don't use gas hose or garden hose or fuel hose, it will perish. Don't forget you need a lot of hose clips too, at least 8.

No idea what bore your existing heater hoses are ; sometimes they are even different sizes. If you get a pair of 16mm equal tees and a pair of 20x16x20 tees you will be equipped for everything. There are even plastic tees that adapt to either size, though I don't like em much, they do work
http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/acatalog/Wa ... tings.html

Which way the water flow goes is usually insignificant, but there must be no heater valves between your new tees and the engine.

----

What about that tank angle - for sure it is incorrect. This leads to incorrect filling and only partial emptying.

----

How is the dialogue with your car insurers going?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:05 am 
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Toolless wrote:
Well the second place I marked above is the same as marked in red in the photos below
The yellow circles are where the inlet fuel pipe enters and the bypass return leaves
We cant see each injector so to get even closer to them should I remove the fuel rail and start thinking about drilling there or should I just stick to the air inlet manifold marked in red?

Image
Image



remove the metal air intake (EFI stamped on the top) and drill your injector holes at the bottom of these pipes where it mounts to the sandwitch plate, the only other place you could do it would be the sandwich plate between the air intake and engine

air intake removed with injector rail and sandwitch plate on show

Image


sandwitch plate with injector rail removed

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:46 pm 
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There looks to be a lot of work to striping that down from the above photo
What kindof engine is that?
Is it a Zetec?
Is it off your Mondao?

Had a look at mine today but no time to do anything but there seems to be a set of bolts holding the rail down
If I remove them will that give me the access I need or do I have to go through the billy ho of removing the manifold throtle pot thingy rocker cover and a few other things

And what are the problems with drilling the holes to far back from the petrol injectors (like my first photo with crosses)

Hay john if you have a Zetec engine by any chance
Can you tell me the bore of the hoses for the heater matrix

Many Thanks Again
Toolless


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:40 am 
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Toolless wrote:
There looks to be a lot of work to striping that down

When thinking about cutting corners, remember you will be drilling and tapping right through the aluminium manifold, chips and swarf will drop straight into your engine if you don't remove it.

Toolless wrote:
And what are the problems with drilling the holes to far back from the petrol injectors

Idles rough and hunts
Hesitates on pickup
Stalls on the overrun
May pop and bang on pickup or overrun or both
May be difficult to restart warm

How is the insurance query coming along?
What is the "gas hose" under the car?
Hows the tank angle setting doing?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:00 am 
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Well had another look at it
Image
And I think I have found the bolts
The red is for removing the manafold and the yellow for the injection rail
How about if i take the manifold off and then drill and tap it then clean it and re fit it
If I drilled at an angle pointing towards the engine and injectors maybe


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:30 am 
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Toolless wrote:
There looks to be a lot of work to striping that down from the above photo
What kindof engine is that?
Is it a Zetec?
Is it off your Mondao?

Hay john if you have a Zetec engine by any chance
Can you tell me the bore of the hoses for the heater matrix


thats a zetec engine, only difference between that and your is that mine is a 2litre, but its idenical to your in every other respect.

stripping it down as far as that is a 10 minute job

its off my 2litre track-car (mk3 fiesta)

if you look down behind the engine you should see 2 hoses going through the bulkhead and into the cabin, take the water feed from 1 of those.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:59 pm 
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Had a look at my micky moues haynes manual today
And cant find where the ECU is for my car or the bore of the matrix hose

This is a thing I found which may belong inside the inlet hose of the tank like a valve but not sure
Image

And this is the fuel gauge cant see it working rely
Image
Image

Hear are the screws that thread into my inlet manifold
Are they metric or BSP pipe thread
I'm also going to need some more hoses that runes from the injectors to the inlet manifold
What size do i need and will water pipe do or dose it have to be fuel hose?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:12 am 
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Why do you need to find the ECU for your car?

Dunno what those bits are either, no doubt somebody will recognise them though.

The fuel gauge is working. It's saying you've got almost a full tank...

The threads on the injector nozzles ar usually M6.

The pipe must be LPG hose (not water or fuel hose) and should be the correct size to fit on the nozzles, usually 4 or 6mm inside diameter depending on what size they are.

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'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:07 am 
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Looks like someone has dismantled the inlet valve for your multivalve. Guess they've lost the spring?

Why do those loose parts not end up at the bottom edge of your vapour sealing box? Maybe your tank is set at the wrong angle ....

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:03 am 
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Gilbertd wrote:
Why do you need to find the ECU for your car?


rev counter and lambda at a guess?

the ECU loom is in the corner under the scuttle panel, not sure which side though but it will be obvious as the will be a sh1t-load of wires going to it, the actual ECU is in the car under the dash.

goto the thermostat and trace the hose back into the bulkhead, the matrix hoses usually got to the middle of the bulkhead.

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