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Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mixer?
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Author:  CNG [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mixer?

I've an old 4 cyl 1960s Land-rover running a simple as it gets Mixer system with a power-valve. No Lambda, nothing. Now has an electronic dizzy, but , in terms of sophistication, that's about it.

As part of a rebuild I'm reckoning on fitting what looks like the perfect solution. Give it an o2 and Epoka, does away with a mixer / stepper etc:

http://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/lpg-kits/epoka-4-cyl-front-end-kit-up-to-190-bhp/

The blurb goes:

This is an alternative to the mixer-style induction systems. The standard kit comes with all components for the front-end, including poly pipe from the tank and Valtek type-30 injectors. An upgrade to high-performance Valtek type-34 injectors is an option. It does not include a lambda probe or a USB lead. You will need an AEB-type lead for connection to a PC in order to set up the system. If your engine does not have a lambda probe, we recommend fitting one.


Only I'm not hearing mention of this anywhere, as being done by anyone. Google 'Epoka' and you'll find nothing. Has anyone rigged a car with anything like this? Is there anythign I need to know to get it right?

Author:  Gilbertd [ Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

Looks good to me. I assume it batch fires the injectors rather than being sequential, much like the earlier 14CUX does on the Classic Range Rover and V8 Defender, so would just need a feed from the ignition coil. It will know the revs so will fire the injectors once per firing stroke with the lambda as a check on fuelling.

Author:  LPGC [ Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

I'm not sure when that was listed, the last time I checked these systems ran open loop, could show lambda on screen but not react to lambda to run closed loop. An open loop version has been listed by TT for years.

Of course similar pulsed injection systems that could run on carb vehicles were common years ago and did run closed loop... These were the 'pre-N' AEB pulsed injection systems (and similar) that look very similar to a modern slave system with all the same components... the main difference being that they don't work as a slave to the petrol system, this is like re-introducing those systems.

They can be a bit tricky to set up if you're unfamiliar because the map shape is very different to the usual modern/slave map shape, you have to define the underlying map shape as you would if designing a petrol injection map. They do run group injection rather than sequential (no cam sensor on carb engines), can deliver good results.

Even before the 'pre-N' systems there were systems like Omegas and Etagas that did much the same only metered gas to nozzles continuously rather than in pulses. The main advantage to all of these systems over a mixer back when they were first introduced was that they inject gas close to the port to avoid backfires. These days sequential slave systems are the norm (has to be that way) and there isn't much we can't convert using either a sequential slave system or a mixer but these are still handy to have available, probably most useful on KJetronic engines and throttle body/carb engines where space is tight for fitting a mixer. They could be put to work on direct injection engines if only direct petrol injectors didn't break without a bit of petrol flowing through them and direct injection engines didn't use wide band lambda probes (could fit a second narrow band probe for these systems but there's nothing available yet to emulate wide band probes to prevent the petrol ECU throwing codes and 'limiting performance').

Simon

Author:  Gilbertd [ Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

The suggestion from TT that it doesn't need a lambda sensor but they recommend fitting one suggests to me that it can run open loop but will run closed loop if one is fitted. I'd think your best bet would be to give them a bell and ask, they don't bite (if they don't see this and post the answer on here first).

Author:  LPGC [ Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

Would agree but I think the listing had the same suggestion even when they could only run open loop.

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