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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:40 pm 
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We'll see what it's like in a few days. The new diaphragm arrived in the post today and is now on it's way to him so he'll fit that and connect the gauge wiring as soon as it arrived with him (like most suppliers, Autogas 2000 won't send directly to France and of those that do they usually charge a stupid amount for postage so it's cheaper for it to come to me and get forwarded on). Hopefully the petrol trims won't drift as much as they are at the moment, after running on gas if it's started on petrol it idles at about 2,400 rpm for the first 15-20 seconds before sorting itself out. But with a diaphragm that at least twice the thickness it's supposed to be, I'm surprised it runs as well as it does.

Interestingly, there's a sticker on the slam panel showing who converted it so he rang them to see if they could issue him with a conversion certificate (needed if he decides to put it onto French plates). It was converted in 2001 so the fact that all it was suffering from was a few rigid hoses and a slightly split diaphragm shows that the Etagas system isn't as bad as many would have you believe.

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:21 pm 
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I've seen quite a few that have done big mileage, reckon they're probably more reliable than old pulsed systems but not as reliable as modern pulsed systems (injectors vs steppers). Reducers and electronics aren't bad in terms of longevity at all but can imagine the wear on a stepper motor that is constantly moving at around the same position - which ironically is the case when the system is ideally setup. If there were a problem with mixture and stepper motors went to one extreme and stayed in that position (especially if most of the time) it would reduce the wear on steppers. With only one reducer there probably isn't much chance that mixture won't go lean at engine loads much above medium acceleration, generally seem good up to maybe 150hp, I had 2 on a BMW750 so each feeding effectively a 2.5 engine, wouldn't flow enough for the top end but good results for cruising etc, they can be set to switch to petrol above certain rpm.

Always careful pulling hoses off, if to be dumped and they're tight I always cut them length-ways at joints to prevent snapping stuff. Most brittle pipes I've ever seen were gas pipe used in place of water hose, any slight bend or knock and snap!

Doing well with this mate.

Simon

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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:48 pm 
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As he's doing a couple of other jobs on the car and isn't going to be using it for a few days, he's taken the reducer off and pulled it apart again in anticipation of Chronopost delivering the new one in a couple of days. I know Propane is pretty evil stuff but the rubberised canvas and silicon sealer bodged diaphragm has turned into a blob of sticky goo. So now he's got a reducer to clean out too......

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:42 pm 
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Yeh I did think that might happen when reading about the fix earlier...

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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:02 pm 
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I must admit when he did it I was pretty sceptical but at least it allowed us to confirm the problem and prove that the system works. With any luck he'll have the new diaphragm on Monday so he'll be able to sort it properly. He's already connected the gauge up and has been busy with a soldering iron and some heat shrink on the other wiring. Seems that at the tank the black wire from the gauge was connected to ground, the green wire became black as it went into a bit of two core red and black flex to run to the front of the car. Because it was black, and all the other earth wires were black, someone had fitted a ring terminal on it and attached it to ground with all the others (I thought there seemed to be a lot of them?). The green and white from the ECU were soldered together so that seems to suggest they should both be connected. He's joined them to the black wire which changes to green just before it gets to the gauge sender so I'm expecting it to work (ish, maybe, as well as any other gas level gauge works....).

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:48 am 
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Seems the temporary diaphragm fix was worth doing.
I reckon the gauge will work now.

Sometimes idle speed is affected by learned idle valve position - So say the mixture was a fair way out while running on one fuel.. due to the incorrect mixture the manifold pressure would need to be higher for the engine to idle at correct rpm, so ICV position is learned to be more open, but this same ICV position applies (at least at first) when the engine is switched to the other fuel resulting in higher rpm idle for a while until ICV position is relearned. In these circumstances if lambda was correct on both banks on either fuel, it points to some cylinders running richer than others (lambda reading is pretty much average over cylinders). In this way it's sometimes possible to tell that either: compression down on one or more cylinders, air flow into some cylinders greater than others (fuel between cylinders correct but airflow not, this would point to valvetrain/cam issues), fuel to some cylinders greater than others (petrol or gas injectors flowing different amounts, injector leakage). On an engine that otherwise gives good performance and can pull decent vacuum at idle on one fuel but not on the other, fuelling is usually the cause (but leaky petrol injectors can effect running on the other fuel more than the one with the leak). I just fitted a sequential system onto a 4L Jeep (removed single point system), I could tell which petrol injectors flowed more and less than average, the engine pulled more vacuum on gas so was running more efficiently on gas due to better per cylinder mixture.

Simon

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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:20 pm 
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There was a valvetrain problem too (on two cylinders on the same bank) which is why he's not using it for a couple of days. The rockers on the LR V8 are alloy with a steel insert that the pushrod bears on. There was a batch affecting cars in a certain VIN range where the inserts get hammered into the alloy rocker resulting in a valve clearance too great to be taken up by the hydraulic followers. His VIN is almost slap bang in the middle of the affected range and it did have one noisy tappet. The Jiffy bag that is currently on it's way to him contains a pair of rockers as well as the diaphragm and nozzle to replace the broken one. So with there being no rocker cover or rocker shaft on one bank at the moment as well as the reducer in bits, he's just waiting for Chronopost. With the replacement rockers allowing all valves to open by the correct amount and the new diaphragm, it should be about spot on.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:46 pm 
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What years does that VIN range cover? I'm wondering if the insert problem applied to a few I've worked on that seemed to run less smoothly than usual, bit of a groaning ticking noise in time with cam rotation?

Should run well on either fuel after all this! Given the insert problem was it down on power too?

Simon

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Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:59 pm 
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It affected all V8 motors fitted to Defender, Discovery and Range Rover around '97 '98. Carb only versions of the Defender from VIN VA131591 to VA140244, Discovery from WA753113 to WA769495 and Range Rover from WA382672 to WA391098. WA signifies '98 model year although mine is a '98 model year but just before this VIN range (WA381xxx). It will cause slightly lumpy running and, when there is lots of slack, a distinctly tappetty noise. His had two that had suffered the problem but only one of them was bad enough to be heard.

Didn't seem down on power but with 6 cylinders producing the full whack and the remaining 2 being a bit down, it probably wouldn't be noticeable.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:36 pm 
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Latest update is that his parcel of bits arrived this morning and he's now got it all back together. With the green and white wire both connected to the green from the gauge, with the gauge showing 40% full, he's got 2 LEDs showing so that looks about right. With the replaced rockers and new diaphragm in the reducer he reckons the engine is damn near silent and it's running beautifully smoothly on petrol and gas. A fairly decent result all round.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:59 pm 
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Location: Yorkshire
Great stuff!
Incidentally on the rocker issue you brought up above, had an old boy bring his new (to him) P38 to me today, he and MOT man reckoned it wasn't switching to gas, I found it was switching to gas no probs so seems he and MOT can't be used to the Prins switch lights... Anyway, this was an 02 model and it made exactly the farty noise I mentioned (previously I called it a groany noise but farty seems more apt!), seemed to be coming from drivers side rocker.. Late 02 model, what do you reckon? No charge for him today but he's coming back for an LPG service after Xmas and I expect some issue with it smelling rich, today neither of us wanted to get involved in anything much other than making sure it would run on gas.
Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


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 Post subject: Re: Etagas software
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:02 pm 
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Drivers side rocker cover has a breather with an oil separator in it, might be that is clogged? It sits in the tube on the rocker cover and can be pulled out with pliers. See if it is any louder (or goes away) with the oil filler cap removed.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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