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 Post subject: Jeep "Ruined" by LPG.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:56 pm 
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I had to laugh at this on Ebay... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282185658425?ul_noapp=true
Glad it hasn't been "ruined" by an easily reversible modification that actually makes it economically viable to drive. A "Future Classic" with some minor wear and tear imperfections (driver's seat looks like shit, it's missing the rubber cupholder inserts that go for £50 a pair on Ebay, and the spare wheel cover is not the original Orvis branded one - nor is it leather).
Jesus, the lengths people go to to sell an old Jeep - if it's a "Future Classic" then put it away and fix the missing bits.
Sooooooooooooooooo glad it hasn't been ruined by an LPG conversion, though... :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:49 am 
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"Hi, few questions if you don't mind mate.. Do the lights go up and down on the switch as they should? Any diff noise/issues? Low range work? Pleased to read there are no issues with the LPG conversion - What type of LPG system is fitted? Thanks."

Ebay message sent! :twisted: Ahh bugger, I forgot to ask if the aircon works! Blokes either a numpty or will write whatever it takes to get a sale. If it was LPG converted, reckon the conversion would be pretty high up on the sellers list of good points!

The ad doesn't say it isn't LPG converted, it says it hasn't been ruined by an LPG conversion... Well, we could assume an LPG conversion wouldn't ruin it? And most Jeeps of that age probably owe the fact that they're still on the road to having been converted and still running well on LPG, so we'd expect this one to be too..? Any old Jeep not converted probably worth nothing like £1000 eh (even if the Orvis model has a sunroof...)? :lol:

A long time ago a car dealer used to buy Jeeps like this from auction, very cheap because nobody wanted to buy them due to the running costs, would bring them to me for conversion and only then could sell them at a profit (even factoring in the conversion cost, driving the Jeep a round trip of 200 miles, his dad driving the same round trip twice in the drop off vehicle so he covered 400 miles in another vehicle, total of 600 miles per conversion..). I converted maybe 15 Jeeps for that one dealer alone, so the dealer and his dad between them drove 9000 miles and paid for 15 conversions in order to make Jeeps saleable. Of course, anyone who fancied a Jeep but not the running costs could have bought one very cheap and have me (or another installer) convert it to LPG without going through that dealer... and plenty of people did. I've converted dozens and dozens of them but it's been a while since I converted a 4L Jeep from around that year, those still on the road already converted. These days the same thing happens but on vehicles of a similar age now as those we were converting back then were... Pay a premium for a slow noisy diesel Jeep or buy a petrol (probably V8) Jeep for a lot less and put the money saved into having it LPG converted, making the petrol cheaper to run than the diesel and recouping some of the conversion cost when selling the vehicle on...

Simon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:29 pm 
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There won't be any diff noise as it's never been used for towing, there will once you hook something up to the back of it. The way I read it, it's never been converted so previous owners have been driving around in a slug of a car and paying through the nose for the privilege......

Like most cars built in the US, they're pretty horrible things anyway. How do you make real leather and wood look like plastic anyway?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:14 pm 
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Ah, I just like them, despite their (many) foibles - the only Grand Cherokee with any real off-road ability at all. And that "real wood that looks like plastic" - it's plastic. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:59 pm 
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I know this has come up before... I thought the diffs went wrong on Jeeps up to early 2k years even without towing, issues ranging from noise to locked up, less trouble on later model Grand Cherokees? I've owned two with dodgy diffs (even though I never really intended to own one) and have seen a lot more with the same issue.

The first one I owned was bought locally, previously owned by a Yorkshire fire brigade chief since nearly new, he only towed a medium sized caravan for holidays... it came with Tasmanian devil decals but at least he'd taken his 'TAZ' private reg' off it for his new Jeep... I only bought it because I was offered it for a ridiculously low price after I'd converted his new one. I ran it for a bit, then sold it on Ebay to a couple of dealers who came up on the train from London.

Bought the second one privately from a guy in South Wales. When I got there the seller said 'Sorry mate I think you'll have had a wasted journey, it won't start now!'. Seemed it wouldn't start because he'd intentionally removed the fuel pump relay... took me less than 2 mins to diagnose, fix, and tell the seller he was lucky I didn't do him on the spot for messing me about big time - reckon he'd had a better offer. Dad went with me to collect it and he drove it back. I only bought it with the intention of converting to LPG and selling on at a profit, thought I'd try the same as the dealer I mentioned above. But my dad had quite fancied a Jeep since seeing all those other Jeeps I'd converted and after driving it back from Wales said he wanted it.. so I ended up not selling it for profit, not even making anything out of converting it to LPG :lol: I inherited this one when dad died and still have it but haven't used it for a while. Locked up diff and dodgy headlight reflectors.

Simon

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:43 pm 
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A lot of the diff problems were caused by people putting in far lighter diff oil than they should have - factory specs were 80W90 for normal use, or 75W140 if you were going to tow anything - and given that virtually all the 93-98 GCs came with the "Towing Package" (a towbar!), you can guarantee that most will have been used for towing at some stage.
If you had an LSD you also had to put in a dose of "friction modifier", which I doubt many got once they had passed the age of being lovingly cared for by the dealership - I'd imagine every jeep that had a diff oil change got the bog standard garage "diff oil" - far too light for towing.
The other main issue was that the NV249 transfer case has a viscous coupler inside - which typically lasts about 80k miles.
Once that goes bad, it locks up the rear axle - and a new viscous coupler is around £450, plus the cost of stripping the transfer case and installing it. So they never got replaced, the axles locked together, and you end up with it "hopping" round tight corners, and eating your rear tyres at a ridiculous rate.
And a way to kill the viscous coupling even faster is to run tyres that are not the same size (even slightly worn ones can kill it VERY quickly - they advise not to use a brand new tyre as a spare, even for very short distances - and to adjust your tyre pressure to ensure that the tyres diameter are within 3mm of each other, for all four tyres.
Of course, you are meant to rotate the tyres regularly to make sure they stay within these specs - but nobody does. And replace all four tyres at a time, not just two, or just the punctured one - but nobody does.
So although the 249 transfer case is by far the strongest, to get around the problems a lot of people swap to the earlier 231 or 242 transfer cases - not a huge job, but they are hard to track down over here...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:36 pm 
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Think after researching type of diff oil for the first GC I owned I ended up putting in some expensive red stuff but it did smell like hypoid..

Can the viscous coupler be taken out and not put back to get around the locked state?

Recommendations read the same as those for the old Vauxhall Calibra 4wd's.

Simon

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07816237240


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:54 am 
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I'd think if you took out the viscous coupler, you would lose all drive to the rear wheels... not sure though, I have a spare transfer case here to pull apart some day. I do know that on the 97/98 GCs, you can take out the front propshaft if it's gone bad, or the thing has lost it's U-joint, with no problems. only on 97/98 models though.
Otherwise "Park" stops parking, and your Jeep rolls away, because the handbrakes are always seized up!


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