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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:05 am
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Location: Grays, Essex, UK
It is time to bid you all a fond farewell :( ,

I have just bought myself another Land Rover Discovery II V8 and made the decision not to have LPG this time.

This will cost me approx an extra 10p a mile in fuel costs and based on my previous usage that will be £600 a year.

I still support what you're all doing to use and promote LPG and I am disappointed in the lack of government support to increase LPG usage.

So why am I going back to just petrol? Three reasons:

1) My LPG system has never run really well. At best the LPG tune upset the petrol running. I have taken the car to two LPG specialists and after a service and configuration was assured that it was now OK. It wasn't. I know it's my fault, I should have gone to one of the traders from this site but I just didn't get round to it.

2) The lack of LPG outlets and their uncertain future.

3) The lack of range on LPG

It is really the combination of 2 & 3 that killed my love for LPG. I got tired of having to route plan by http://www.filllpg.co.uk/ - brilliant site by the way.

So ... anybody want two Zavoli front ends and a twin LPG tank with in wing petrol tank for a Discovery II ?

Joanne Elizabeth Harrison

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 3051
Location: Yorkshire
Hi Joanne,

On other occasions I have been defensive about LPG - as something I'm involved in and firmly believe in the benefits of - but you're a believer in LPG and I see the sense in your points... My answering style below isn't intended to be confrontational or critical of your decisions but is intended to add a bit more context and highlight the positives of LPG that you implied in your points.

Joanne3 wrote:
t is time to bid you all a fond farewell ,

I have just bought myself another Land Rover Discovery II V8 and made the decision not to have LPG this time.
Sorry to see you go.

Joanne3 wrote:
This will cost me approx an extra 10p a mile in fuel costs and based on my previous usage that will be £600 a year.
Glad you said that! Only had to do 6000 miles per year to save £600 running on LPG... Still, with your limited mileage it would take you about 2 years to get your money back if you paid for a brand new LPG conversion (all new parts) so could understand you not converting this time. On the other hand, you already have the bits, could re-use them on this Disco, in which case you'd still get your money back in a year even if paying a pro to fit it...

Joanne3 wrote:
I still support what you're all doing to use and promote LPG and I am disappointed in the lack of government support to increase LPG usage
Agreed government should do more to promote it, especially since the diesels emissions fiasco (I, and UKLPG, have suggested this to government recently, all without any progress)... By various means (including effectively a lower road fund licence for diesel vehciles on the basis of CO2 emissions) government steered car buyers towards diesel power, thereby lowering the UK's total CO2 emission output by some small amount... But on the global scale, the UK's total CO2 emissions (not just vehicle emissions) are (and were) negligible http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html#.VxUrQzArKM8. Doesn't seem a great idea to promote diesels on the basis of slightly lower CO2 emissions, thereby reducing UK CO2 emissions from vehicles by only a small amount, thereby reducing total UK CO2 emissions by only a very small amount, thereby reducing global CO2 emissions by a negligible amount, when other substances in diesel emissions are far more harmful and causing health problems right here in the UK, not to mention stinking the country out! When considered as a whole, petrol emissions including CO2 are far less harmful than diesel emissions, emissions from a petrol engine running on LPG are less harmful than petrol emissions, LPG is the cleanest viable fuel for the UK. Seems to me the Yanks have got their priorities right, the EU (at least UK) got priorities wrong... Unless it's a good idea to have poorer air quality and more cancer cases etc locally in order to decrease total CO2 output by a negligible amount - doesn't seem a good idea to me!

Joanne3 wrote:
1) My LPG system has never run really well. At best the LPG tune upset the petrol running. I have taken the car to two LPG specialists and after a service and configuration was assured that it was now OK. It wasn't. I know it's my fault, I should have gone to one of the traders from this site but I just didn't get round to it.
If you'd come to me for it fettling it would have run perfectly on either fuel :wink:

Joanne3 wrote:
2) The lack of LPG outlets and their uncertain future.
I really don't see much of a problem in that respect... Years ago I found it much more difficult to find places selling LPG than these days, seems a site closes another site opens while over the years the number of sites has increased - I imagine the situation would seem worse to those in areas with few filling stations with a vehicle with little range if the closest place stopped selling LPG... But it might seem just the same to someone living in that area with an unconverted vehicle with little range if their local petrol station closed down.. All about range?

Joanne3 wrote:
3) The lack of range on LPG
Discovery2's aren't the best vehicle to convert regards tanks and range... On these models, if you want tank(s) external so as not to take up interior space the options are sill tanks (which don't hold a lot but you keep your existing petrol tank) / your type of setup with small special petrol tank to make space for smallish LPG tank(s). The other tank options involve fitting a tank inside, can fit a large capacity tank but will take up luggage space. In contrast the usual tank for a P38 or L322 RangeRover will hold nearer 80 litres and is fitted in the spare wheel well so there's no compromise on interior space and range on petrol is unaffected... Most converted vehicles have a similar setup (spare wheel tank, unaffected petrol range) as the P38 / L322, Disco2's are more of an exception. My car has a tank underslung in the spare wheel location, another tank (quickly removable) in the luggage area and even with the luggage area tank fitted there is a large area remaining for luggage. This 3.3L large people carrier does similar mpg to your Disco but has more than 500miles range on LPG and since it still has the original petrol tank it still has the original 300 miles or so range on petrol.. My son's Mondeo will do over 300miles on LPG with it's single tank hidden in the spare wheel well and still do maybe 400 miles on petrol.. I could fit a larger tank or second tank to the Mondeo but he has no problem finding LPG wherever he goes (even without using FillLpg website) and he gets all over the place since setting himself up as a photographer. His daily 10 mile commute to Uni takes him directly past 2 LPG stations, if he diverted only a couple of miles from that route he could reach another 3 LPG stations.

Joanne3 wrote:
So ... anybody want two Zavoli front ends and a twin LPG tank with in wing petrol tank for a Discovery II ?

May be interested in some or all bits, particularly the front end bits, to give customers the choice of fitting new or second hand for cheaper repairs etc... depending on price! Zavoli injectors or Matrix?

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:05 am
Posts: 62
Location: Grays, Essex, UK
LPGC wrote:
Joanne3 wrote:
1) My LPG system has never run really well. At best the LPG tune upset the petrol running. I have taken the car to two LPG specialists and after a service and configuration was assured that it was now OK. It wasn't. I know it's my fault, I should have gone to one of the traders from this site but I just didn't get round to it.
If you'd come to me for it fettling it would have run perfectly on either fuel :wink:

I know :( , I looked up where you are on google maps and had the journey planned out ... but ... bought another car instead. If my LPG'd Discovery hadn't needed chassis welding I would (probably) not have changed.

LPGC wrote:
Joanne3 wrote:
3) The lack of range on LPG
Discovery2's aren't the best vehicle to convert regards tanks and range... On these models, if you want tank(s) external so as not to take up interior space the options are sill tanks (which don't hold a lot but you keep your existing petrol tank) / your type of setup with small special petrol tank to make space for smallish LPG tank(s). The other tank options involve fitting a tank inside, can fit a large capacity tank but will take up luggage space. In contrast the usual tank for a P38 or L322 RangeRover will hold nearer 80 litres and is fitted in the spare wheel well so there's no compromise on interior space and range on petrol is unaffected... Most converted vehicles have a similar setup (spare wheel tank, unaffected petrol range) as the P38 / L322, Disco2's are more of an exception. My car has a tank underslung in the spare wheel location, another tank (quickly removable) in the luggage area and even with the luggage area tank fitted there is a large area remaining for luggage. This 3.3L large people carrier does similar mpg to your Disco but has more than 500miles range on LPG and since it still has the original petrol tank it still has the original 300 miles or so range on petrol.. My son's Mondeo will do over 300miles on LPG with it's single tank hidden in the spare wheel well and still do maybe 400 miles on petrol.. I could fit a larger tank or second tank to the Mondeo but he has no problem finding LPG wherever he goes (even without using FillLpg website) and he gets all over the place since setting himself up as a photographer. His daily 10 mile commute to Uni takes him directly past 2 LPG stations, if he diverted only a couple of miles from that route he could reach another 3 LPG stations.


This was the real problem, I do a lot of short journeys and my range was down to 120miles on LPG and then I got paranoid about running out of petrol if anything happened. Most of my friends who have V8 Discoveries have the mark 1 and run single point with sill tanks very successfully and keep the full size petrol tank. I have to carry a mobility wheelchair in the boot so can't fit an internal tank and the disco 1 boot is too small for the wheelchair and other luggage.

LPGC wrote:
Joanne3 wrote:
So ... anybody want two Zavoli front ends and a twin LPG tank with in wing petrol tank for a Discovery II ?

May be interested in some or all bits, particularly the front end bits, to give customers the choice of fitting new or second hand for cheaper repairs etc... depending on price! Zavoli injectors or Matrix?
Simon


I have four Matrix XJ injector blocks, two ECU's, two Zeta Reducers (Unmarked so assume N type) and associated sensors etc. Make me an offer and I'll parcel them up for you.

A question, after I remove the LPG injectors how do I seal up the holes left behind in the inlet manifold?

Joanne

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Jemima Puddletruck - Land Rover Discovery 4.0 V8 with Zavoli multipoint LPG


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 3051
Location: Yorkshire
Joanne3 wrote:
I have four Matrix XJ injector blocks, two ECU's, two Zeta Reducers (Unmarked so assume N type) and associated sensors etc. Make me an offer and I'll parcel them up for you.
I'd rather you send me a PM saying how much you want for them! Wouldn't want you to think I was trying to blag bits at too low a price. Thing is, new bits aren't expensive these days and while I rather like XJ injectors I'd rather fit different less expensive injectors (which these days can perform equally as well as XJ's). Not saying I wouldn't want the injectors included, just an example of how times may have moved on since those bits were supplied. Nearly ten years ago a complete 8 cyl AEB front end based system cost over £700 (for just the engine bits), these days they're more advanced but only £300 and with better injectors than some of those that used to cost £700!

Joanne3 wrote:
A question, after I remove the LPG injectors how do I seal up the holes left behind in the inlet manifold?
Couple of ways of doing that: 1 You can disconnect all pipes at the injector rail end but disconnect only every other pipe at the manifold end, then connect remaining pipes attached to the manifold to the bare spuds (brass bits attached to manifold) from where you disconnected the other pipes at the manifold. This way you need to leave all the spuds and at least short lengths of pipe on the engine, it isn't as neat as the other method... 2 Remove all pipes from the manifold, remove all spuds, screw in some very short M6 (most likely to be M6, do check!) machine screws (bolts with threads all the way up) with some sealant applied. This way you keep the spuds, the engine looks near standard but you need 8 suitable bolts... I buy bolts, drill bits, taps, etc, from a specialist supplier, much cheaper and higher quality than from the likes of BNQ but you only need 8 so not going to cost much wherever you buy. If you couldn't get hold of suitably short bolts (say 10mm length) you could get longer bolts and cut them down to 10mm.. To cut, screw a nut right up on each bolt, put in a vice, cut to length (hacksaw / angle grinder), clean up any overhanging bits etc from cutting (file around the circumference at the bottom edge where you cut), then when you remove the nut it helps clean up the threads on the bolt. Apologies if you didn't need to be taught to suck eggs!

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:45 am
Posts: 322
Being a newbie on here Jo i hadn't seen you on here before but i echo Simons sentiments of being sorry to see you go.
I feel for you with the dilemna of long range tank against being able to carry a mobility scooter, my Jeep has a 90L tank behind the rear seat and it totally screws boot space so if the scooter goes in, it has to go in with the front wheels handing over the rear headrests! Not safe or even desirable!
My cars aren't yet converted to LPG (but will be soon - hopefully!) but the boots on them barely take the scooter even now. Thankfully i only need it on my worst days and then i tend not to go out anyway.
That said i live in a rural area and have difficulty finding LPG stations although i've found a few thanks to filllpg but still have to route-plan the same as you.
Maybe if your next vehicle has better arranged luggage space or arrangement for an LPG tank we'll see you back here in the future? Either way, good luck with the new Disco :D

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Dave


Somewhere in Suffolk with a Jeep, 2 Rovers and a V6 Volvo

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