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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:17 pm 
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another question.

as i said elsewhere, i have been looking for ages for a LPG converted vehicle. Hopefully i can convert one from CNG but thats not the subject of this post.

i started to build a 'hydrogen on demand' system to put on a petrol van, does anyone know if such a system would be compatible with an LPG system? my friend has such a hydrogen system on his Ford explorer and its amazing.

thanks in advance

darren


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Is this one of the setups to generate hydrogen from water using electricity to trickle it into the air intake by any chance?

Theres been posts on it here before.....


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:47 am 
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Brian_H wrote:
Is this one of the setups to generate hydrogen from water using electricity to trickle it into the air intake by any chance?

Theres been posts on it here before.....


My thoughts entirely Bri lol..

Such setup will do much the same for an engine running on LPG as for an engine running on petrol... Not much at all but it won't hurt anything.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:36 pm 
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LPGC wrote:
Not much at all but it won't hurt anything.


Other than the fuel consumption. To get enough Hydrogen (or HHO, Browns gas to be strictly correct) to have any effect you need to draw more power from the electrical system that the HHO adds to the engine. You never get anything for nothing and the efficiency means you have to put far more in than you get out.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Gilbertd wrote:
LPGC wrote:
Not much at all but it won't hurt anything.


Other than the fuel consumption. To get enough Hydrogen (or HHO, Browns gas to be strictly correct) to have any effect you need to draw more power from the electrical system that the HHO adds to the engine. You never get anything for nothing and the efficiency means you have to put far more in than you get out.


really? i kind of presumed 480v would be enough, cos thats what you would get when you run in parallel 2 x 24volt batterys on the same alternator. they only last a year, but generate plenty.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:26 am 
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48v would be what you'd get if you ran 2x 24v batteries / alternators in series, though you wouldn't really get 48v with 2x 24v alternators in practice because an alternator is earthed through it's chassis and this would prevent running them in series.

But voltage / batteries / series / parallel etc are largely irrelevant here. What Gilbert is saying is that it would take more power from the engine to drive the alternator(s) to make the electricity to make the hydrogen than the power the engine could make from burning the hydrogen. The engine couldn't make enough hydrogen even for the engine to run, never mind make enough hydrogen for the engine to fuel itself and generate extra power.

If what you were getting at were true it would have the potential to solve the world energy crisis because you'd be implying that you could run an engine to make hydrogen which the engine itself could use as it's fuel and the engine would have spare energy left over to do other things such as generate even more electricity, no fuel involved except water (which isn't a fuel). This could never work.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:55 am 
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LPGC wrote:
48v would be what you'd get if you ran 2x 24v batteries / alternators in series, though you wouldn't really get 48v with 2x 24v alternators in practice because an alternator is earthed through it's chassis and this would prevent running them in series.

But voltage / batteries / series / parallel etc are largely irrelevant here. What Gilbert is saying is that it would take more power from the engine to drive the alternator(s) to make the electricity to make the hydrogen than the power the engine could make from burning the hydrogen. The engine couldn't make enough hydrogen even for the engine to run, never mind make enough hydrogen for the engine to fuel itself and generate extra power.

If what you were getting at were true it would have the potential to solve the world energy crisis because you'd be implying that you could run an engine to make hydrogen which the engine itself could use as it's fuel and the engine would have spare energy left over to do other things such as generate even more electricity, no fuel involved except water (which isn't a fuel). This could never work.


but if you put an oversize alternator in your vehicle to compensate that would take care of that, and an ex head of R & D at GKN showed me his 2 x 24v batterys running in line creating 480 volts so it does work.

and there is no interest at all in the petrochemical cartel solving the energy crisis and never has been. In 1955 a car completed all 500 laps of the indy 500 powered by seawater, BP bought it, never seen again. there's no energy crisis anyway as the biggest scam ever perpetuated on the human race is the 'fossil fuel' myth. Oil is created FROM WATER, and will never run out, peak oil was created by the petrochemical cartel so they could justify high prices at the petrol pump to this very day.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:17 pm 
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What we're saying is that regardless of the size of the alternators etc the alternators would take more power to turn them (from the engine) than the engine could make even if it didn't have to drive anything else, so it is impossible to run an engine that must make it's own fuel by getting hydrogen from water.

In electronics you can create any voltage from any voltage so 24/48/480 volts is just a side argument because you could make 480 volts from 12volts without needing 20 x 24volt alternators quite easily. But 2 alternators or even 20 alternators wouldn't be capable of making enough electricity to make enough hydrogen to fuel an engine, for that you'd need a lot more electrical generation capacity than could be provided by 20 alternators. Again, the bigger the electrical generating capacity of the alternators the more load on the engine (alternators take power from the engine to turn them to make electricity), so again laws of physics say it isn't possible.

No interest in that from the petrochemical cartel but there are many other bodies that would have a strong interest and the petrochemical firms would not be able to suppress them all. If it were possible we'd already have it. We might expect something invented in 1955 that disappeared because BP bought it to have been re-invented by now...

Oil is created from decay of dead life which itself was based on carbon and over millions of years.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:57 pm 
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[quote="LPGC"]What we're saying is that regardless of the size of the alternators etc the alternators would take more power to turn them (from the engine) than the engine could make even if it didn't have to drive anything else, so it is impossible to run an engine that must make it's own fuel by getting hydrogen from water.

In electronics you can create any voltage from any voltage so 24/48/480 volts is just a side argument because you could make 480 volts from 12volts without needing 20 x 24volt alternators quite easily. But 2 alternators or even 20 alternators wouldn't be capable of making enough electricity to make enough hydrogen to fuel an engine, for that you'd need a lot more electrical generation capacity than could be provided by 20 alternators. Again, the bigger the electrical generating capacity of the alternators the more load on the engine (alternators take power from the engine to turn them to make electricity), so again laws of physics say it isn't possible.

No interest in that from the petrochemical cartel but there are many other bodies that would have a strong interest and the petrochemical firms would not be able to suppress them all. If it were possible we'd already have it. We might expect something invented in 1955 that disappeared because BP bought it to have been re-invented by now...

Oil is created from decay of dead life which itself was based on carbon and over millions of years.[/quote

sorry friend but your decay of dead sea life assumption is horseshit.

in any event, what about the work of Daniel Dingel from the phillipines? if a peasant mechanic could run his cars on water surely Honda could?
and what about stuff like this? know its not a car but proves the principle nevertheless http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... litre.html


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:20 pm 
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It isn't horseshit, decay of dead matter is what makes oil. Or how do you make oil out of water?

Why not pay the peasant £5000 for his motorbike plans, I'm sure he'd be willing, and make your own water powered bike, and sell the idea for a £millions then.... But it would be £5k almost wasted because it won't really work. If you look at the comments below the article 'debunked' is mentioned.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:14 pm 
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funkybob wrote:
and what about stuff like this? know its not a car but proves the principle nevertheless http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... litre.html
But read what it says, water plus an external car battery. He's running the bike engine on
Hydrogen that is being generated by electrolysing water into Hydrogen and Oxygen but to do that he's using an external battery that will need to be charged. The power needed to charge the battery is more than the engine can produce as the conversion can never be anything like 100% efficient. He will always use more power generating the fuel than the engine can produce.

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