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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Only if you get the temperature of the bottle considerably higher than that of the tank, but not recommended. Even then, not much will go in without a pump. Have a look at http://www.diy-lpg.co.uk/articles/files ... ed-up.html, probably something you could knock up in a few minutes. Alternatively, can you remove the tank with filler attached, bung it in the boot of another car and take it to the filling station?

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:40 pm 
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I will investigate getting the tank out Gilbert , but i think its pretty buried , i was wondering about completely venting the car tank so its empty , then inverting my orange bottle so it has liquid at the outlet ,and then using the bottle pressure to force liquid into the car ?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:48 pm 
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It might force a little in but as soon as the pressures equalise, it will stop flowing. You've also got the spring in the non-return valve on the tank inlet (and filler) to overcome so in reality, it's doubtful any will flow.

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:09 pm 
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ah gotcha ,thank you .


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:53 pm 
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There is a way of filing the tank FULL from a bottle but not something I can publish

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:30 pm 
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thanks Dai , i will give you a call at some point,if that's ok , if i cannot solve it ,meanwhile...

well here's a new one on me , got flatbedded to the petrol station . plugged in the lpg , pressed the button , and nothing would go in !

reset the pump , disconnected and re connected a load of times ...tried the other pump , no luck a bloke came in with a saab and filled up ok (after they reset it again) so i am guessing a stuck valve in the filler or somat ? any ideas chaps, its a normal single point valvebody on a spare wheel tank ,which has not been used in a fair while ,how many valves are there ? one in the plastic filler connection and one in the tank valvebody ?


any suggestions gratefully received , while i dry off after MEDUSA got its first drenching ,,,thank you god !


regards
robert.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:57 pm 
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Theres a one way valve in the bayonet filler - you should be able to push that with a screwdriver as you can see it if you look down the centre hole (assuming its a bayonet standard filler of course, and not something you need an adapter to fill with)

Theres another one on the tank, but if that was stuck you will get some pressure released if you try to operate the one on the filler, as the line will be pressuried when you press on it (so don't get too close if your trying to press it with a screwdriver and expect something may come out of it). If your fuel gauge works (even just the indicator on the gauge) does it show full or empty as the same float does both the level and cut off on a single hole tank.

If your tank has been opened (multivalve removed for any reason or the solenoid post removed) then it can be best when you first connect the pump to let the pressure equalise first (you will hear gas flowing and feel it if you hold the hose from the pump) else it can either fill very slowly or not at all sometimes. Same can apply if the tank is emptied when its warm (run to the point it won't run anymore) and then gets colder overnight etc. Will be worse on a larger tank too.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Thanks Brian , the fuel gauge works was on 3 led now on the red. I disconnected the engine feed and slowly unscrewed the feed tap and a little sigh of vapour came out so I know the tank is empty. I will try the screwdriver tomorrow . I have never removed the valve body from the tank so I will try that is I cannot get it to flow after freeing up the bayonet. I assume 80 psi compressed air will make the vcalves open ?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:14 pm 
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I've had a filler non-return valve stick once. Thin screwdriver in the hole, to one side of the brass bit that runs across the inside of the filler, and tapped it with a spanner. Gas shot out and after that it would fill normally.

80psi might do it but the tank is at around 10 bar which would be nearer 150psi so might not be enough.

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Tank is empty Gilbert, so I hope go push air in the filler and outthedisconnected engine feed line . I will find out tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:46 pm 
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I'd suspect given you haven't filled it in a while that the external filler is where your problem lies.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:13 pm 
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well who's the gooof !?


i popped the feed valve and got lpg out of it ,so knew there was gas between the feed and the tank , then started taking off the tank pipes , only to find underneath everything , a blimmen manual inlet cut off valve !!that was shut !!!!


i hung my head , then did a little dance and opened that bad boy up ,and hey presto we have flowage .


then i tripped over in the cave whilst carrying a 19kg gas bottle ,and accidentally shoved 10.4 litres in the tank , noice !


that will be enough to get me to the mot... 2 miles ,and the petrol station... 5 miles ...before running out , i hope.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:00 pm 
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there's only one word I can add, Plonker.......

But, a closed outlet valve wouldn't have stopped it from filling so the non-return valve in the filler must have been stuck too.

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:35 pm 
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gilbert ,,,closed INLET valve on the tank ...you plonker lol


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:28 pm 
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UPDATE :


Since it was going to rain tomorrow morning (apparently), i decided to get the car there this evening in the dry.

I had a bit of a thrash spending ages in the cave with the exhaust extraction on trying to get it to run evenly , even went and got 12 new plugs yesterday at 4.45 and popped them in , that made a good difference , but a constant problem is the mixture leaning off a lot the hotter the car gets , i think i may have to put thermostats in the water cooling system, so it gets to temp and is more stable .

I backed the timing off to 10 btdc , and tickover to 1000 rpm ,then did little jobs , on the brakes test they were better, but i am still not happy with the handbrake, i think that basically needs a re design, with a leverage mechanism..but hey , lets see what happens .



So off i went out of the garden and actually onto the public highway for the first time ....

.this was very exciting ....


but at the first junction the poxy thing tried to stall ,more work needed on the setup ,may need smaller venturis in the lpg mixers..


a ting ting tinging from the rear right showed me the tyre was doinking on the guard ... i carried on .


next junction was a smoooth run round to the left ,and i poobled down the straight 1/2 mile , er ,well no, i didn't ,because at this point the car started not wanting to rev ,and i ground to a halt ...

Its now 4.45 ,and i am supposed to be inserting it onto the garage ramp at 5 ...


I decide its run out of the fuel i put in there ,already , and so call veronica to come and either tow me home , or, if she is up for it , tow me 6 miles to witney for fuel ,bear in mind she has never towed before , yet alone on the wrong side of the car and rd ,and in a turbo charged 1.4 lpg astra ..


Meanwhile ,another car pulls up , and a chap and girl jump out ,and offer , if you can believe this , to tow me to Witney !!!



Then v arrives ,and is super relieved she does not have to tow me anywhere ,and we hook up the worlds shortest luggage straps , and off we go , at 30 mph for 6 miles in the 5pm rush hour, the long queue behind up testified to that.


We have a roundabout and some lights to cope with, but the chap is great and drives brilliantly so all was well , i bang in 30 litres of lpg ,and start her up , and off i roar .


Driving Observations .....



whahhhooobbbly rear end , those tyres may just need a lot more than 25 psi in them.

cooling ran at 9 psi on the rad pressure and 78c on the dig readouts ,until i got to a slow queue and it went to 10 psi with the fans on .

gear lever has too much play due to the transit box having a plastic bush holder in the gearlever neck,and its worn.

engines much too lean still , accel ok ish,cruise spitting every now and then .60 mph cruise fine ....2k rpm in 5th .

steeering light ,and no tramlining.

brakes work , not great but all four brakes got warm.

oil pressure , on the 4.0 all well holds 80 all the time , maybe a sticky relief valve . on the 3.6 ,the oil pressure started swinging up and down .it may just be low on oil because i have the engines vertical and am using the stock dip stick , so i will throw some more oil in there first .


roared into the station ,(oh yes, it has definitely got louder) heel and toeing like a nutter cos it would not tickover , and popped it on the ramp..


Image



Image



the saga continues tomorrow at 8 ....







regards
robert


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:52 pm 
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Did you tell the tester what you were bringing in or just book an appointment and turn up? 3 weeks ago I had an imported Ford Excursion V10 to modify to get it to meet UK MoT regs, get it through the test and register it. All that really needed was mods to the lights (replace amber front running lights with white sidelights, rewire rear lights so the original reversing lights became indicators by fitting amber bulbs, disconnect the flashing brake lights that were the indicators and rewire with blocking diodes and relays so they worked as conventional brake lights and fit aftermarket LED reversing/rear fog lights) so once this was done I phoned my usual test station to make a booking. They asked for a registration number and I just said that it was an import and didn't have one but didn't ask what it was. Now if you know an Excursion, it's basically a Ford F250 pickup with an estate body, a 6.8 litre petrol V10 engine and is bloody huge! I drove in and as I was parking the tester came out, took one look at it, asked if I had bought it in for MoT and was it actually Class 4. Yes, just, weighs 3.3 tonnes. Will it fit on the ramp? Paced out the width and then the width of the ramp, just, with less than half an inch spare on each side between the outer sidewalls of the tyres and the squarish bits at the base of each upright (the same as on the pics of your testers ramp). Eventually got it on the ramp. Tried to test the headlight aim and it was too tall for the beam tester. tried to lift it on the ramp (marked SWL 3 Tonnes) and the motor grunted and that was as much as happened, it wasn't man enough to lift it. So he jacked each wheel up in turn, wobbled the wheels and had a squint underneath. Moved it off the ramp, bunged the probe up the exhaust for the emissions (no problem there) then, despite me telling him that it was in 2WD so he could test the brakes on his rollers, he decided that he valued his rollers too much so would use the deccelerometer in the footwell. Possibly the easiest MoT pass I've ever had......

I suspect he'll tell his receptionist (who is also his wife) that the next time I call and ask for an MoT booking for an unregistered import, to ask what it actually is.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:47 pm 
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WELL.

NOT good news i am afraid.
















For other road users !!!




Because it only went and bloody well passed the bloody mot bloody test !!!!




A document for yuor perusal m'lord..



Image




to quote the tester..


"better than i expected"


Woke to bucketing rain...so I romped up at 805 , having dragged my adrenalised corpse out of bed 7.2 minutes earlier ,and off we went.



Firstly he very diligently examined the whole car on the ramp , spotted where a couple of split pins should be then Checked all electrical stuff , headlights were spot on ,and all fogs and dip and hazards ,well basically everything was fine .


Then we jacked up the front ,and found a bit of play in one wheel bearing but not much ,nothing to worry about , optimistically ,the brake discs looked a fair bit cleaner, compared to the parked in a scrap yard cretaceous period growths they had up to now .

off to the back and all fine , we found the ting ting noise from the rear mudguard was caused by a lose flap of rubber off my tyre , i found out last weekend those tyres had been on a winnebago that had some abuse ...so that's an easy fix .


A bit of adjustment sorted the emissions ,which are very easy on a lpg engine ,we used engine no.1... just spoilt for choice dontchaknow !


Then brakes , now i was bit concerned about these , but in the end they were fine , well balanced and more braking at the front than back , which was a nice surprise since i took the pressure reducing valve out of the line to the back ,and was expecting it to be a bit rear biased ...no problemo !


And that was it , i waited around till the rain stopped , drove home and had a hot drink and a sit down.


now to tax it and start rd testing and modifying till it drive how i want ,its still too lean on cruise ,so i am thinking of making a restrictor for each venturi .

THANKS TO ALL FOR THE KIND WORDS AND SUPPORT >>> IT REALLY HELPS .

regards

robert


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:28 pm 
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getting hypothetical here ,



driving observations are , it accelerates quite well , but on cruise at 2k rpm and 60 mph , it falters and spits a bit ,going lean . it also does the dying thing stopping at junctions ,and it all seems like the familiar thing of too much flow into the inlet compared with the port pressure on the vap . like when you fit a cold air feed to the from of the car with a mixer ring and no port compensation .

i have a 32mm venturi , design rules state i need a 22 to 25mm venturi for 40 bhp /cyl .

i have the double feed setup to the globes, so have a POSSIBLE 25% greater venturi allowance ,so now 27.5mm to 31.25mm.


i have my vaps fitted close to the chassis with the port on the back about 20mm from the chassis.

i have a stream of air moving past the bellmouth ends as i drive , either making a depression or a higher pressure ,compared with the vap balance ports.


do i invest time in

making venturi reducing bomblets ,eg a 15mm globe in each venturi would give me a 28mm venturi area.

or in trying to pipe the vap vents to either, the front of the car, or beside the bellmouths .




regards
robert


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:00 pm 
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I'd try reducing the venturi size first. I bought a P38 Range Rover with a Millennium lambda controlled singlepoint on it that wouldn't run on gas. From the wad of invoices the world and his dog had all had a go at it with a new vaporiser, filters, shut off solenoid, tank multivalve, basically everything you can replace had been replaced. All except for the mixer which was missing it's internal venturi..... Tinley Tech supplied me with a nice new 36mm one which I whacked in and fired it up, expecting everything to be fine. Was it hell. At idle it was fine but as soon as I opened the throttle it went terminally lean. In the end pulled the mixer out of mine and found I had a 34mm one. Put that on it and perfect. Back to Tinley Tech, got a 34mm one, bunged that on and everything was spot on. You'd never think 2mm would make that much difference but it did, just don't tell a woman......

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Well done on getting the MOT, hope its running on the roads regularly might even get to see it if your out and about as your not far away!


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