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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:10 pm 
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I bought a car yesterday as I was paying for it the seller mentioned that it was duel fuel.
So can anyone advise me what I should know about using LPG?
So far I am just using petrol and have not risked switching.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:51 pm 
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Try flicking the switch and see if it changes over. If it dies on you, put some gas in it and try again. Then just use it and almost halve your fuel costs. It should drive no differently on gas to petrol, if it does, they may be a problem with it. In which case I'm sure we can sort it for you.

What car is it?

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'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:40 pm 
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The car is nothing exceptional, it is a 1998 DAEWOO NUBIRA CDX.
The LPG tank is fitted where the spare wheel would normally be located, according to the LED's on the switch it is empty.
I did a search and found a garage about five miles away that sells LPG.

Do I have this right, I start on petrol and once the engine is warm I can flip the switch to LPG?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:04 pm 
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No luck yet in getting any LPG, the pump at the BP garage on the A4 near Woodley was not working this
morning so I may have to go to Three Mile Cross on the other side of Reading.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:48 pm 
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Assuming it's one of the factory fitted ones and not an aftermarket conversion, flip the switch and leave it in the LPG position. It will change over automatically as soon as it gets up to a pre-set temperature. The only time you would normally move the switch is if it is empty and you want to force it to run on petrol.

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:33 pm 
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Having recovered from the flu that laid me low for the past week I at last took the car for a long enough drive for it to switch over to LPG.
Not so good - as soon as it switched over the engine warning light came on and it was running very rough, not firing on all cylinders. I have switched back to petrol for the moment, any advice on what I need to do now?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:55 am 
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The first thing you need to do is identify what LPG sysem is fitted. It may be a factory fit multipoint, an aftermarket multipoint or even a single point mixer system. Have a look under the bonnet and see if you can see an additional ECU with a makers name on it. You will have a vaporiser (a fairly large roundish aluminium thing) with pipes going to it. One of these pipes will either go to the air intake trunking or to a bank of injectors depending on what type of system it is. A couple of photos might help.

The MIL coming on, coupled with a misfire, suggest that the mixture (the ratio of fuel to air) going into the engine is wrong. On a modern car, if a wrong mixture or a misfire is detected it will bring on the MIL, so what you have experienced is normal. It may be something as simple as the car has been left with a flat battery and the LPG system has lost it's settings and just needs reprogramming or running for a while to re-learn the correct settings.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:32 am 
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Thanks for that information.
I will try and get some photos later and try and identify the system.
When I got the car the seller had to fit a new battery as the old battery was not holding charge in the cold weather so it is quite possible that LPG system has lost it's settings.
I will try running it again and see if it recovers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:33 pm 
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OK here are some photos, sorry I am not really sure what I am looking at under the bonnet so I hope I have managed to photograph what is needed.
Image
Image
Image

This is the tank:
Image
I would say that the LPG system was not fitted from new as the floor of the boot has to be pushed down to get it to close over the tank.

I tried running on gas again but it was still very rough and had not really improved after a couple of miles, though the engine warning light went out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Looking at those pics, the first one shows the air con hose (the clue being R134a on it which is the AC refrigerant type), the second doesn't show much at all but the third is fairly revealing. There is a hose coming from the intake trunking just above the throttle body which has a black plastic stepper motor actuator in it. The other end of this hose will go to the vaporiser which will also be plumbed into the cars cooling circuit.

The actuator has wires coming from it and if you follow these back you should find the LPG controller. See if it has a makers name on it. It may well be an AEB Leonardo or an OMVL Millenium (the same as I have on 2 of my 3 LPG cars). The fact that the engine management light has gone out after running for a while certainly suggests that the system has lost it's settings and is still learning the optimum setting. The fact that it is running rough could be due to it still being quite a way out or simply that the spark plugs are past their best. Running on LPG needs a better spark than running on petrol so any weakness in the ignition system will show up on LPG first.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:59 pm 
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It looks like the reason it does'nt work is because the front end of the install is missing :wink: . Is there a copper pipe underneath the car going from the lpg tank to a reducer/solenoid that is hidden in the engine bay? Then a pipe from that going to your inlet manifold or to lpg injectors?
The second photo shows maybe a pipe going to throttle body/inlet duct joint.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:06 pm 
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If the front end was missing, it wouldn't run at all not just run rough. It looks like the vaporiser is fitted quite low down underneath the brake servo. All the pipework from the tank will be underneath anyway.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:16 pm 
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Thanks Gilbertd,
I traced the wires back to the controller and the name on the box is REDWOOD AUTOGAS but the website address on the box http://www.redwood-autogas.co.uk/ was dead.
There is a small plastic bottle fitted near the battery (top can be seen on the third photo to the left of the battery), this is is labelled as 'FLASHLUBE Valve-Saver' and looks like it should be connected to something, but the hose has snapped off and I can not see the remains of the hose or see where it should be connected.

Maybe I should fit new spark plugs and see if that helps.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:42 pm 
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Nothing to do with the LPG but from the photos it looks like the coolant system needs topped up with antifreeze coolant mixture ---- as the level in the coolant expansion bottle isn't visible.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:48 pm 
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As you say, the website is dead but a Google for Redwood Autogas brings up this http://www.lpg-conversion-autogas.com/fuel-economy.htm As they appear to be an installer, it is highly unlikely that they made the system, they probably just stuck their label over the manufacturers one. Does it look anything like this http://www.aeb.it/products/feedback-systems/leonardo ?

New plugs would be the first place I would start to see if the misfre can be cured. If they do the job, you'll get the cost of them back in your first couple of tankfuls of gas.

The Flashlube is fitted to inject a small amount of a valve saver lubricant into the inlet of the engine to prevent valve seat wear when runing on gas. In the old days, this lubrication was provided by the lead in leaded petrol. Then along came unleaded which has an additive that is supposed to do the same job but doesn't do it as well, so engines had to be fitted with valve seats made from harder grade steel. Some manufacturers use a grade that is hard enough to not suffer even if there is no lubricant (as there isn't in LPG) while others use a grade that can just about cope with running on unleaded fuel with the additive but not without any additive at all. The Flashlube system is fitted to overcome this drawback. Whether your engine actually needs it or not is a different matter. Some installers would fit it whether needed or not just to be on the safe side. So, somewhere you should have a small diameter pipe coming off the inlet manifold of the engine which should be fitted to the bottle.

and yes, your coolant level does look a touch low......

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:27 am 
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That looks like a Vauxhall engine??? Daewoo fitted them in a few cars. If it is a vx engine it does'nt need flashlube. If it is a jap engine it does. I think one or two installers fit flashlube no matter what.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:05 pm 
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junkcatcher - yes the coolant was low and I have now topped it up.
Gilbertd- yes it does look like the LEONARDO system.

I will get new spark plugs and see if I find the hose for the flashlube.
Hopefully then I will be able to start running on LPG.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:37 pm 
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The flashlube pipe will be a small diameter one and will come off the inlet manifold after the throttle housing but before it divides into 4 to go to the 4 cylinders. I thought I could see it in your second pic but that one goes to a black box on the LHS bulkhead that definitely looks like something the manufacturer put there.

If it's a Leo, you shouldn't have many problems, they work pretty well. Which is probably why quite a number of manufacturers use them but with their own labels. Where in the country are you? If you are anywhere near me, I'd happily connect my laptop to the Leo to see what it's doing.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:36 pm 
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Thanks for the offer, I am just to the north of Reading.
I will have another look for the flashlube pipe at the weekend.
I have new plugs in now and will try running on gas tomorrow, how long should it take the control unit learn the right settings?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:55 pm 
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Once the engine is warm and everything is working correctly, it should learn to run reliably within a few minutes. The Leo learns constantly, but if it has got it's knickers in a twist due to another problem, it may take a few miles before it's spot on.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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