LPG Forum


All times are UTC



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:04 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2986
Location: Yorkshire
Couple of points here....

The injectors are unnecessarily mounted too far away from the manifold, meaning injector pipe runs are unnecessarily long. The injectors are of a design that should be mounted vertically but are mounted horizontal. You could kill two birds with one stone by mounting the injectors at the side of the engine, this would be made easier using side exit injectors like OMVL's. The reducer seems to be mounted upside down on the pic, not a problem but will arguably make servicing more difficult. The reducer is also possibly capable of swivelling unless those holding bolts are very tight.. We can see the 30 degree toroidal tank's vent tube but it doesn't protrude quite protrude enough through the boot floor. The boot floor doesn't seem to have been painted after the hole was made. The Valtek injectors will have 4mm OD nozzles but you fitted DN5 (5mm) injector hose (Eagle eyes here tonight lol). Why fit a 90 degree filler then use a 90 degree fitting after the filler when you could have fitted a straight filler that would have been neater, less chance of a leak between fittings, cost less, been neater and allowed a faster fill? if you're going to paint the filler fitting, why not paint the cap at the same time? How did you paint the cap? Really it needs smoothing down (they have rough edges as they come), plastic priming, painting, laquering if metallic. Takes ages to properly colour code a filler otherwise the paint comes off very quickly!

Simon
Lpgc

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:12 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
Tubbs wrote:
With a gas converter or something else ?


With a garage doing services etc usual car maintenance and m.o.t's :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:29 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
LPGC wrote:
Couple of points here....

The injectors are unnecessarily mounted too far away from the manifold, meaning injector pipe runs are unnecessarily long. The injectors are of a design that should be mounted vertically but are mounted horizontal. You could kill two birds with one stone by mounting the injectors at the side of the engine, this would be made easier using side exit injectors like OMVL's. The reducer seems to be mounted upside down on the pic, not a problem but will arguably make servicing more difficult. The reducer is also possibly capable of swivelling unless those holding bolts are very tight.. We can see the 30 degree toroidal tank's vent tube but it doesn't protrude quite protrude enough through the boot floor. The boot floor doesn't seem to have been painted after the hole was made. The Valtek injectors will have 4mm OD nozzles but you fitted DN5 (5mm) injector hose (Eagle eyes here tonight lol). Why fit a 90 degree filler then use a 90 degree fitting after the filler when you could have fitted a straight filler that would have been neater, less chance of a leak between fittings, cost less, been neater and allowed a faster fill? if you're going to paint the filler fitting, why not paint the cap at the same time? How did you paint the cap? Really it needs smoothing down (they have rough edges as they come), plastic priming, painting, laquering if metallic. Takes ages to properly colour code a filler otherwise the paint comes off very quickly!

Simon
Lpgc


With the way the air box is designed and the resination chamber, it would mean making spacers to raise the air box up, would also have to make the inlet pipe from throttle body to air box from silicone hose if i did it like that. The pipe from throttle body to air box won't flex as much as you think it's already tight at the minute to clear the injector pipes.
I couldn't mount the rail on the side as it would either the A/C pipes be in the way on the right side, the left side of the engine has the abs modulator and Aux belt so would be a pain for servicing thats why i chose there where to mount it up, If the rails get sticky i will make a spacer so the rail can be on a 45 degree angle instead of just being mounted horizontal. The way the regulator is mounted is so the solenoid can be accessed easily for servicing it's not to bad tbh. Yeah the bolt is tight on the reducer it goes through a captive chassis nut and a nylock nut is on the back of it to keep it tight.
It's on a double skin you have the boot floor and then a seperate skin mounting a towing bracket to it will get some better pics over the weekend. It protudes through about 3-4mm if it's too short i will fit another as ive not yet sika-flexed the vent pipe in yet. I was looking at fitting 4mm but it always seems abit to small for my liking don't now why but just prefer 5mm, it's a nice snug fit on the injector pipes to injection rail, you can't pull them off you need to release the clips.
The filler hasn't been painted just in the standard black as you get it, as it matches the black exterior trim on the vehicle already, and the fillers look @!## if not sprayed well and if you don't use plastic primer or plasti-cizer in the paint it flakes of after awhile i found.
Over the 90degree filler i got was i wasnt sure where i was going to run the lpg pipe and i was alittle unsure on fitting as there is a steel panel a couple of inches away from the pipe so wasnt to sure but can be changed to a straight 8mm fitting at a later date if wanted as ive got some in the toolbox.

I will get some pics of the pipe running front to the back and see what you think simon, i had a hard time trying to find chassis points as per the rules say, had to use the floorpan to secure some of the fixings (Does say in the regs i think on this) :mrgreen:

Cheers Luke


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:39 am 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2986
Location: Yorkshire
Sorry Luke I was a bit whammy with the fault picking there mate. I do think you'd be better off with the injectors mounted elsewhere, though. On engines with the air filter / box right on top of the manifold it's often better to mount injectors at the side, underneath or over the rocker cover (without preventing access to coil packs / plugs etc). All that aside, yes post some more pics we'll advise.

Simon
Lpgc

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:57 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
LPGC wrote:
Sorry Luke I was a bit whammy with the fault picking there mate. I do think you'd be better off with the injectors mounted elsewhere, though. On engines with the air filter / box right on top of the manifold it's often better to mount injectors at the side, underneath or over the rocker cover (without preventing access to coil packs / plugs etc). All that aside, yes post some more pics we'll advise.

Simon
Lpgc



I understand what your saying but the pipe lengths are virtually the same length give or take a couple of cm's, Will do quite fancy doing abit of the car this weekend if it's not too wet or starts raining!

Luke


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:46 pm 
New member

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 111
this been finished yet ??


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:11 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
lukie wrote:
this been finished yet ??


Nope been busy with bits and pieces getting a new welder, compressor etc, and only getting sundays off and ive ended up doing the brothers corsa headgasket, Got a portasol soldering iron now though so will get cracking on this ignis.

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:06 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
some pics of the underneath thought id ran the wiring but haven't.

Image
Image
ImageImage
ImageImage
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:59 pm 
New member

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 111
what's wrong with all the pipe clips ? at every clip the car looks wet ? I see you haven't changed the filler yet with the double elbow's, both pipes coming out of the boot floor look tight still, have you checked the distance of the p clips on the feed pipe down to the front it look's a little long, last picture shows the gas pipe resting on brake pipes not good news...

what happened to the electric cables ?? surly it's easier to attach them all together and do the routing once sol feed, level gauge and feed pipe


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:04 am 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
Yeah distance is correct its under the max limit of distance.
It looks wet as i put grease around so the screws screw in with grease, the pipes the go around the fuel pipes arnt resting barely touching looks like that with pics, i was goin to leave filler as ive already routed pipe not sure if it says owt in cop, just time


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:37 am 
New member

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 111
Never seen that before, surly when you come to protect the pipe clips and screws the paint / underseal won't stick properly?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:25 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
Can't say iv'e never not done it, did it when working with lpg monkey, As what happens if you need to renew the pipe a couple of years down the line, the screw snaps and then if you get some customers who like playing with their cars on a weekend and they say a snapped screw and a new hole drilled they will probably complain, not worth not putting anything on, not for the extra time it takes.

Was going to use wax-oil or stone chip or schultz whatever takes my fancy when im doing the car again probably be wax-oil.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:59 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
Did some wiring at the weekend, tidied up the positive and negative feed from ecu, lpg injector wiring shortened and tidied up niceley as well as got the parking sensors done ;)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:12 pm 
New member

Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:41 pm
Posts: 28
luke123 wrote:
LPGC wrote:
Sorry Luke I was a bit whammy with the fault picking there mate. I do think you'd be better off with the injectors mounted elsewhere, though. On engines with the air filter / box right on top of the manifold it's often better to mount injectors at the side, underneath or over the rocker cover (without preventing access to coil packs / plugs etc). All that aside, yes post some more pics we'll advise.

Simon
Lpgc



I understand what your saying but the pipe lengths are virtually the same length give or take a couple of cm's, Will do quite fancy doing abit of the car this weekend if it's not too wet or starts raining!

Luke


Im no expert on lpg installs (only done 1!) but a couple of cm difference could make a difference when it comes to the mapping.
Also i havemt got cop11 in front of me but if i remember correctly is says the pipeline should be shielded from impact so ideally youd want the chassis rails as the lowest point and the pipework running next to them rather than on the underside of them.
Happy to be corrected though!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:54 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
I have seen longer pipework from the manifold to lpg rail, if it does become an issue i will just have to reroute the air box and put the rail closer, but the length between them is the same near enough less than a cm in differance in pipe length.
Im in work at the minute but you had me thinking so i googled it and found these, will have alook when i get home but im sure it doesnt say about shielding cover, says to shield it from the exhaust system etc


1.3.3Gas Container. The term used in the "Construction & Use" Regulations meaning a fuel tank which is a pressure vessel for the storage of AUTOGAS to be used as an automotive Motor fuel.
1.3.4Contents Gauge. A gauge which gives visual indication of the liquid contents in the fuel tank.
1.3.5Bus. A motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver [Road vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulation].
1.3.6Passenger Service Vehicle (PSV). A bus used for vehiclerying passengers for hire or reward, or other vehicle (except a taxi) used for vehiclerying passengers for hire or reward at separate fares in the course of business [Public Passenger Vehicle Act 1981].
1.3.7Mini-bus. A bus designed to vehiclery seated more than eight passengers but not more than sixteen excluding the vehicle driver.
1.3.8Goods Vehicle. A motor vehicle or trailer constructed or adapted for use for the carriage or haulage of goods or burden of any description.
1.3.9Hydrostatic Relief Valve. A valve whose purpose is to relieve and prevent over pressure due to thermal expansion in any supply pipeline carrying AUTOGAS in the liquid state.
1.3.10Stop Fill Valve. A double check level device, which prevents the over filling of fuel tank beyond a pre-determined liquid level. 4.4.1Every pipeline feeding from or into the fuel tank should follow the safest route and be protected from impact. It should not be routed through any passenger compartment. It should be below the body shell where it may be shielded by structural members of the vehicle wherever possible.
4.4.2Pipelines should be no closer than 100 mm remote from the vehicle exhaust system. Where this is not practicable, the pipeline must be shielded from the vehicle exhaust system by a suitable heat shield so as to ensure that the pipeline is not subjected to a temperature above 120ºC.
4.4.3Pipelines should be effectively secured to the chassis frame or body shell using purpose designed pipe clips at interval not exceeding 600 mm and in such a manner to be protected against excessive strain and vibration.
Plastic strapping, tie wrap etc is not suitable.
4.4.4Pipelines should not be installed where any part is permanently hidden from view and cannot be inspected regularly.
4.4.5The positioning of pipelines should be such that they are not affected by chassis, panel, suspension or propshaft movement. Pipelines should not be located at jacking points.

4.5Flexibility

To avoid chaffing and damage pipelines should be installed so as to take up safely the relative movement between the chassis/body and the fuel system components and secured in such a manner so as to prevent wear taking place. Particular vehiclee should be taken when using non-metallic pipelines.

4.6Pipeline Over Pressure Protection

4.6.1Every section of LPG liquid pipeline between positive shut-off or lock-off valves should be protected against resultant damage from over pressure due to liquid thermal expansion (see also 3.3.3© ).
4.6.2Any hydrostatic relief valves should be vented to op-en air, away from the vehicle exhaust




Luke


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:54 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
I have seen longer pipework from the manifold to lpg rail, if it does become an issue i will just have to reroute the air box and put the rail closer, but the length between them is the same near enough less than a cm in differance in pipe length.
Im in work at the minute but you had me thinking so i googled it and found these, will have alook when i get home but im sure it doesnt say about shielding cover, says to shield it from the exhaust system etc


1.3.3Gas Container. The term used in the "Construction & Use" Regulations meaning a fuel tank which is a pressure vessel for the storage of AUTOGAS to be used as an automotive Motor fuel.
1.3.4Contents Gauge. A gauge which gives visual indication of the liquid contents in the fuel tank.
1.3.5Bus. A motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver [Road vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulation].
1.3.6Passenger Service Vehicle (PSV). A bus used for vehiclerying passengers for hire or reward, or other vehicle (except a taxi) used for vehiclerying passengers for hire or reward at separate fares in the course of business [Public Passenger Vehicle Act 1981].
1.3.7Mini-bus. A bus designed to vehiclery seated more than eight passengers but not more than sixteen excluding the vehicle driver.
1.3.8Goods Vehicle. A motor vehicle or trailer constructed or adapted for use for the carriage or haulage of goods or burden of any description.
1.3.9Hydrostatic Relief Valve. A valve whose purpose is to relieve and prevent over pressure due to thermal expansion in any supply pipeline carrying AUTOGAS in the liquid state.
1.3.10Stop Fill Valve. A double check level device, which prevents the over filling of fuel tank beyond a pre-determined liquid level. 4.4.1Every pipeline feeding from or into the fuel tank should follow the safest route and be protected from impact. It should not be routed through any passenger compartment. It should be below the body shell where it may be shielded by structural members of the vehicle wherever possible.
4.4.2Pipelines should be no closer than 100 mm remote from the vehicle exhaust system. Where this is not practicable, the pipeline must be shielded from the vehicle exhaust system by a suitable heat shield so as to ensure that the pipeline is not subjected to a temperature above 120ºC.
4.4.3Pipelines should be effectively secured to the chassis frame or body shell using purpose designed pipe clips at interval not exceeding 600 mm and in such a manner to be protected against excessive strain and vibration.
Plastic strapping, tie wrap etc is not suitable.
4.4.4Pipelines should not be installed where any part is permanently hidden from view and cannot be inspected regularly.
4.4.5The positioning of pipelines should be such that they are not affected by chassis, panel, suspension or propshaft movement. Pipelines should not be located at jacking points.

4.5Flexibility

To avoid chaffing and damage pipelines should be installed so as to take up safely the relative movement between the chassis/body and the fuel system components and secured in such a manner so as to prevent wear taking place. Particular vehiclee should be taken when using non-metallic pipelines.

4.6Pipeline Over Pressure Protection

4.6.1Every section of LPG liquid pipeline between positive shut-off or lock-off valves should be protected against resultant damage from over pressure due to liquid thermal expansion (see also 3.3.3© ).
4.6.2Any hydrostatic relief valves should be vented to op-en air, away from the vehicle exhaust




Luke


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:18 pm 
New member

Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:41 pm
Posts: 28
4.4.1 was the one i was referring to. As it says wherever possible it could be argued that the pipeline could easily be clipped to the side of the chassis rail rather than underneath but it then doesnt say it must do so either?

Not knocking your work, just interested as to how people interpret the regs and playing devils advocate i suppose!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:06 pm 
Advanced Member

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:00 am
Posts: 7885
Images: 0
Location: Peterborough
This is one of the problems with this, and many other similar publications, they are open to interpretation. In addition, they can also be contradictory, While 4.4.1 seems perfectly reasonable, then when you read 4.4.4, it may not be possible in some installations to comply with both.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:07 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
Finished most of the electrics of and drilled the holes for the map sensor and flash lube.
Just need to wire up from the tank solenoids to vapouriser solenoids now and that should be it finished.

Will get some pics up soon


I will see what an installer says when i come to get it registered, me personally its not hanging down and is higher up than the exhaust system, but we will see


Cheers luke


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:58 pm 
New member

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
So iv'e sorted the odds and ends with the wiring etc.

Iv'e done an autocalibration then vehicle was driven on petrol to give me the values for the map then driven on gas to give me a base line map, then i whent on the fine tuning side where it will collect at a lower rpm range to give more values accross the map. Then whent in the gas injector section and tested them and added the correction advised by the software on the map etc.

vehicle was driven but gas pressure drops of, I.E put your foot on the accelerator gas pressure goes to 1.0-1.5 fluctuations but at normal driving goes to 0.8 on gas pressure then as soon as you take your foot of accelerator or set of to fast or change gear the gas nocks it's self of? some pics below of the vehicle running at idle, i have been playing about with the gas pressure in the software to see if that made any differance but nothing.

Image
Image
Image
Image

cheers Luke


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group