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LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L
http://lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14268
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Author:  agostino [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Hello,
my old car (lpg), 207SW is getting a bit old (120kmiles) and I was thinking about upgrading it to something more comfortable for the long drives I do on motorways.
My idea was to get a large engine (above 2.5L) and convert to LPG to be able to drive economically with a decent torque.
My candidates are:
Jags XF 3L
Mercs CL or CLS 5L or possibly 3.5L
Lexus is250

Any suggestion/recommendation?
Thanks!

Author:  LPGC [ Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Just whichever car you'd prefer to own from that shortlist...

Author:  agostino [ Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

thanks Simon
even the lexus?

Do they require valve saver or they can do with petrol contribution?

I will start looking to sell my current car then, might be a few months...

Author:  LPGC [ Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Depends on the year of the Lexus, some Toyota (Lexus) V6's feature both port and direct injection, you wouldn't want an engine with direct injection. Considering you consider your current car with 120000 miles a bit old, it's likely that a Lexus engine a bit bigger than 2.5L (as per your wish list) would be a V6 and have direct injection but it depends on the vehicle year. As memory serves, Lexus V6's in saloons got direct injection around 2005 but some none saloons like RX300s didn't get direct injection, then after a few years they went back to port injection, then more recently back to direct.. You'd want to check on the specific model/year you were thinking of buying.

Lexus and Jag will need a valve lube.

None of the cars you mentioned will make for the easiest DIY conversion.

Simon

Author:  agostino [ Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Thanks Simon,
I think I can remove the lexus from that list.
I do approximately 120 miles a day and my car was converted by Tubbs. It went really well and never needed anything, not even valvesaver. I just change the filter every 25k miles and keep going.
It runs with the infamous prince engine, which is a BMW derived engine with VTi. While the car is going still great I have a few issue with it:

1) the prince engine, while being a 1.6L engine, has no torque. Nothing below 4k RPM. Its really slow in raking up RPM as well. Its slightly more snappy with petrol but not much.

2) the gearbox is not helping as its a 4 speed automatic. Its slow in dropping gears and it always tries to use a higher gear than it should.

3) the prince engine, like all these engines uses a ridiculous amount of oil. I have to top up half a litre every 1000-1500 miles. It has always been this way and there is plenty of ppl complaining about the same problem.

4) driving so much and doing lot of sedentary work I developed a nasty sciatica. the seats of my car completely lack lumbar support and has a small range of adjustment. I use a lumbar pillow but it is not magic. I would really like to have heated seats at least in winter..

In short I'd like a good comfortable car that would allow me to travel to work in happiness, return decent "equivalent mileage" with LPG, have a good torque and a nice engine.
I recently saw also the BMW series 7 (2008-2009 ish) that looks great and is relatively cheap..I'd prefer a car that doesn't need valvesaver in principle or that can do with petrol contrib.
I do not really believe in valvesavers, there is no real technical reason for them to provide any protection to the exhaust valves as they should burn up completely during the expansion cycle. If they "accelerate" the flame front of the LPG in order to protect the exhaust valves then I see no reason why petrol contrib wouldn't do the same.

Im not planning a DIY conversion

Author:  classicswede [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Valve saver does work and is proven however I would agree with you that given the choice go for an engine that does not need it. I am not a Merc guy but am always impressed with the ones I have converted. For me it would be a choice between a merc and Lexus.

Author:  agostino [ Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

I have been browsing a lot and there are very few lexus around which can be converted.
Ideally I'd go for a GS but most GS300 are using the direct injection, apparently the GS430 instead uses port injection so it might be more suitable. It is however much rarer than the GS300 and I have quite a bit of difficulties in finding one.
Mercs are great but I realised that maybe the CL is far too big for me, i like the details and finish but its large, very.
I might be looking for something smaller, somewhat in the 3.5l range. Unfortunately again there is not much on petrol, most is diesel or its C class (I want something more comfortable).
BMW instead are very pricey, i d'ont understand why..Couldn't find anything in my price range..
It might take some time :(

Author:  agostino [ Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

I found this which is interesting
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... New&page=1

I might have a look if its possible to convert it to LPG easily (its not DI)
Its a cat D, should be a non-structural damage right?

Author:  Gilbertd [ Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Cat D often means no damage, just that the insurance company paid out for a hire car while the claim was being sorted out. It could be a stolen recovered that took a week to find and may have needed no more than replacement keys and locks. Cat D is rarely recorded, only CAT C has to have gone through a VIC check.

Author:  Brian_H [ Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Gilbertd wrote:
Cat D often means no damage, just that the insurance company paid out for a hire car while the claim was being sorted out. It could be a stolen recovered that took a week to find and may have needed no more than replacement keys and locks. Cat D is rarely recorded, only CAT C has to have gone through a VIC check.


Thats no longer the case with the VIC check - they stopped requiring VIC checks a couple of years ago for Cat C vehicles.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-vic-scheme.html

Author:  Gilbertd [ Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

So you no longer need a VIC check on a Cat C even? So no 'This vehicle was identity checked on xxxxxx' on the V5 to tell anyone looking that it's been written off in the past. I know DVLA seem to be getting more lenient these days with anything pre 1960 no longer needing an MoT and they've recently dropped the charge to put a cherished plate onto a retention certificate (you used to pay an £80 transfer fee to swap a plate from one car to another but if you didn't have a car to put it on, there was an extra £25 charge to put it on a certificate. Now you pay the £80, get a bit of paper and you can put that onto another car within 10 years free of charge). So not only are they making life easier, it's getting cheaper too! They'll be letting me register imports less than 10 years old without an IVA test next......

Author:  Brian_H [ Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Gilbertd wrote:
So you no longer need a VIC check on a Cat C even? So no 'This vehicle was identity checked on xxxxxx' on the V5 to tell anyone looking that it's been written off in the past. I know DVLA seem to be getting more lenient these days with anything pre 1960 no longer needing an MoT and they've recently dropped the charge to put a cherished plate onto a retention certificate (you used to pay an £80 transfer fee to swap a plate from one car to another but if you didn't have a car to put it on, there was an extra £25 charge to put it on a certificate. Now you pay the £80, get a bit of paper and you can put that onto another car within 10 years free of charge). So not only are they making life easier, it's getting cheaper too! They'll be letting me register imports less than 10 years old without an IVA test next......


Nope - I had to get mine done as it was declared cat C for a broken rear windscreen and dented boot panel, got hold of another boot with glass, re-mot'ed it then vic checked it about 2 weeks before they stopped requiring it.

Think a lot of it has to do with having to employ less people to do the checks etc, plus deal with the hassle of something that didn't seem to really achieve that much (very few vehicles failed the check to detect vehicles being passed off as another vehicle etc which was what it was aimed at)

Author:  Gilbertd [ Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

As the VIC checks were done at the same VOSA testing stations that do the IVA testing, I wonder if they are trying to cut costs and are going to be closing them like they did with DVLA local offices?

Author:  Brian_H [ Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Gilbertd wrote:
As the VIC checks were done at the same VOSA testing stations that do the IVA testing, I wonder if they are trying to cut costs and are going to be closing them like they did with DVLA local offices?


Would have thought they would have already done so if that was the plan - I'd suspect theres a bit more money to be made out of IVA tests over VIC ones as I'd guess the fee is somewhat higher due to there being quite a bit more involved in the test.

Author:  Gilbertd [ Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LPG on Jaguar XF 3L or Mercedes CL 5L

Brian_H wrote:
I'd guess the fee is somewhat higher due to there being quite a bit more involved in the test.
Certainly is, £199 a time.

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