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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:37 pm 
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markob wrote:
I think I may take it to the Prins guys in Southampton
I spoke to them today (on different subject), got the impression they deal with Prins diesel blend systems now, Prins petrol systems dealt with in Huddersfield.

You needn't splash out on an all new system...

markob wrote:
the battery on the car started to play up a few weeks back and so I replaced it, afterwards out of curiosity I thought I would try the LPG again and it worked !

Maybe disconnecting the battery cleared fault codes and allowed the system to work, not sure but I managed to get through 4 tanks with no problems.
Maybe battery connection cleared codes, maybe you made a better power connection for the LPG system when reconnecting, maybe just coincidence.
markob wrote:
This week the system is playing up again, only difference being the temperature. If I leave the system to automatically switch over it cuts out and drops one or more cylinders. If however I let the car get much warmer and switch it over manually it seems to run quite happily

Does this point conclusively to the reducer or plumbing not being right ?
Maybe it's set to changeover at too cold a temp like Gilbert said, and Mercs do shut cylinders off on misfire detection. From memory, Lovato has a min setting for changeover temp of 20c and this weather your engine will have been running a while for reducer to reach 20c? if reducer plumbing was an issue would expect to see problems after running on gas a while, not during switch-over. Other possibles would be long injector pipes, manifold nozzles in poor location, ECU settings issues such as fuel switch-over characteristics, incorrect temp correction, poor mapping, some injectors don't work well at cold temps. It is possible to mask most such issues by setting a higher changeover temp and/or setting changeover in deceleration at higher than tickover rpm, where if install was on par that shouldn't be necessary.

Simon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:04 am 
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Thanks again for the input

agreed, perhaps disconnecting the battery was just coincidence, the battery connections appeared to be just for the car with no modifications there so I presume the LPG system takes its power from elsewhere.

The "problems" can potentially be isolated to two situations :

1. when the weather is cold and the engine has just been started at changeover from petrol to LPG the car switches off one or more cylinders due to a misfire
2. when driving for extended periods on the motorway the car will misfire and only run properly back on petrol.

When the 1st situation happens switching off and back on usually does work (LPG will run ok)
When the 2nd situation happens stopping and starting the engine usually does not work (LPG will not run ok)

At the end of December we will be heading off to Europe again and I would really like to get this sorted, LPG is very easily available there and will make our journey significantly more cost effective


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:41 am 
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1 would suggest the changeover temperature is too low, or at least it should be possible to cure it by upping the changeover temperature even if that isn't the actual cause.

2 suggests poor coolant flow through the reducer so that at sustained high speeds the temperature is dropping too low. Probably down to how it has been plumbed in. Do you have the cable and software so you can monitor it while driving?

I know what you mean about the availability and cost of LPG in Europe. I costed out a trip to Sofia a couple of weeks ago and can get there on £250 in LPG. This site http://www.mylpg.eu/lpg-prices-across-europe is very useful as it gives average prices and maps of where the filling stations are if you click on a country. LPG is cheap over here at the moment but still almost the most expensive in Europe.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:59 pm 
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Agreed with Gilbert. Even without the cable, could check reducer temps by driving at sustained 80, stick into neutral, immediately turn engine off, pull up and feel reducers. Probably not the best thing to do during rush hour (not that you'd get to 80 then!).

Annoyingly almost dearest in Europe...

Simon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:13 pm 
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It's not really fair comparing fuel prices across Europe like that though, as you need to take into account other taxes, average salary and so on. People from some other European countries come to the UK because clothes and food are a lot cheaper than in their country. In Iceland they pay next to nothing for electricity and hot water but have to pay a huge amount for things that can't be produced there (pretty much all food that can't be grown in a greenhouse or isn't fish)...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:45 pm 
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You're talking about something along these lines, Rich... http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index ? :lol:
Only thing is, the link lumps most of 'Euro area' together while there'd be a bit of a difference between a litre of LPG versus average wage in Germany compared to Poland etc.

Simon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:16 pm 
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rich r wrote:
It's not really fair comparing fuel prices across Europe like that though, as you need to take into account other taxes,
and that's where the comparisons fall over, there's Governments involved. We pay road tax to, theoretically, fund our roads infrastructure but in France the roads, with the exception of the Autoroutes that are privately owned and funded by the operators, are paid for out of the tax applied to fuel. So how come we pay more for our fuel (all types) than the French do?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:40 pm 
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So today with air temperature at 8'c I left the car to automatically switch over from petrol to LPG and it did just fine. I called up the engine temperature display on the dashboard (which is a digital gauge), it looks like the LPG system is programmed to switch over somewhere between 60'c and 65'c - I wouldn't mind if it switched over at a higher temperature

I need to do a bit of motorway driving this week so I am up for doing the check on the reducers, would be good to clarify that too

Another thing my wife noticed when driving on LPG which I am picking up on more now is that when you are coasting say up to a traffic light the car surges and almost drives itself a little bit, it only does this on LPG

Sadly I dont have any cable or software to look at the system, if its easy to get I dont mind doing that


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:31 pm 
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markob wrote:
So today with air temperature at 8'c I left the car to automatically switch over from petrol to LPG and it did just fine. I called up the engine temperature display on the dashboard (which is a digital gauge), it looks like the LPG system is programmed to switch over somewhere between 60'c and 65'c - I wouldn't mind if it switched over at a higher temperature
65c would be a very high changeover temp, quite often engine temp readings on dash displays do read more 'middly' temps than actual engine temp because vehicle manufacturers think we're all impressed by temp gauges that don't shift around while we're driving, there is no direct connection between gauge and engine temp, a computer sits inbetween the engine and the gauge... LPG system readings are taken from LPG system's own sensor and generally read correct reducer temp.

You could get a cable from the likes of TinleyTech, we'd be able to give simple advice regards simple diagnostic procedures such as checking reducer temps while driving etc (I mentioned a way of doing so without cable), but helping you with the likes of other problems like the one you mentioned (I've quoted below) is more difficult without being hands on...
markob wrote:
Another thing my wife noticed when driving on LPG which I am picking up on more now is that when you are coasting say up to a traffic light the car surges and almost drives itself a little bit, it only does this on LPG
This would have been relevant on my XJR thread http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=13956, Rosko take note :P
For symptoms like that you're better off visiting a good installer to put it right. Problem for customers is they don't know the good installers from the bad, which installers would put the issues right / which would go through the motions, charge for having a look but leave you in the same position and none the wiser.

Simon

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:06 pm 
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To me this whole thread reads as a water flow problem causing the major issue. The reducers are probably icing and it could well be the raw gas that causes the miss and also killed the last set of injectors.

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