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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:16 am 
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ok so i have bought a 2006 range rover sport 4.4 v8.

i would like to convert it to LPG in time. the wife will mainly be driving it, and she only does 4000 miles a year (why convert it i hear you ask?!) well my other car runs on gas and its great and of personal interest.

to start with, which is the "best" system to suit my car?
what parts do i need? large round tank... twin vapourisers?

how would i set up the ECU? can you buy pre set maps?
if i installed is myself could i get it "set up" by someone else?

i know people will suggest i just take it to get it fitted at my local installer - avongas in bristol - which i could... but id like to install it myself if possible. (im a rolls-royce fitter by trade)

ive got a landi renzo system on my other car (V6) and its quite simple- with out too many wires. thats a close loop system (no lamda control i dont think)

cheers

Spencer 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:32 am 
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There is no best system, just quite a few that will suit it. Your best bet would be to speak to Tinley Tech who list complete kits for various Land Rover models (see http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/acatalog/Ra ... r_P38.html, the Sport is the same as the Disco 3) and see what they recommend. The may be a bit more expensive than some of the other suppliers but you'll get everything you need and plenty of support if you've got any queries.

There's no lambda control for the LPG system as such, it piggy backs onto the petrol system and that uses the lambdas (and all the other sensors) to control the fuelling, the LPG controller just adjusts it to suit the alternative fuel.

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:53 pm 
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Tinley Tech are a good supplier, I wouldn't say anything against them, they have a great reputation and rightfully so. For an amateur they would make a good choice as they are prepared to give amateurs tech support at basic level as well as pros at higher level.

There are other suppliers, some might have lower prices, not sure on how an amateur doing their first install on a techy vehicle would rate all such company's tech support though....

Always surprising when people (particularly none installers) that frequent the forum only advise one supplier / one route when they are full in the knowledge of another option that might be of interest to people who intend to convert their own vehicle... There are a minority of installers, like myself, that sell DIY kits to people such as yourself as a side-line. Some of us are really good installers and will have converted many examples of the same vehicle that a kit buyer intends to convert, some perhaps very recently.. Can provide very specific and detailed install tips / info. Support is taken to the next level - for DIY kit customers I am available to phone (and email) at any time not just within office hours, have personally converted all the Land/Range Rover models recently, will give advice on specifics such as how to fabricate brackets (no kit ever comes with all parts supplied, there will always be some fabrication to do), component mounting, pipe routing, wiring, etc, explained in detail.

Some of my biggest DIY kit selling points are that if customers struggle to complete the install they can bring the vehicle here for completion or maybe just for minor aspects putting right (for which I wouldn't charge). Probably not a bad idea to come after the conversion anyway as I do a safety inspection and very thorough calibration all for free too...

Would be able to supply a map for any system I supplied for one of these vehicles but it's always best to fine tune maps, particularly on these vehicles which need a petrol return fitting - The flow of the petrol return will affect the petrol pressure reading, which in turn will affect how the LPG system should be mapped because the petrol ECU has a closed loop system for adapting to petrol pressure too. It is difficult to accurately say what the fuel pressure will read with the petrol return fitted, after all if the vehicle manufacturer were completely confident that the petrol system could run with a constant and specific petrol pressure this would negate the need for the closed loop system regards petrol pressure. The return is needed because running on LPG the petrol system still believes the engine is running on petrol, the petrol pump must still be running but without petrol injectors operational - the petrol pressure rises without a return fitted making LPG system calibration very difficult and in any case generating error codes when the petrol system interprets the high pressure reading as a fault with the petrol system.

Going back a few years you could just say 'A Landirenzo X system' and everyone would know what parts that system would comprise. These days the same isn't often true - If you say 'King system', that would only tell us the name on the sticker on the ECU, it wouldn't tell us which reducer or injectors you had, while the 'King' branded ECU would actually be manufactured by AEB. If you say 'Emer system', then would expect the same AEB ECU as you would fit with the King system (this time wearing an Emer sticker but this ECU won't work with as wide a range of injectors as the King ECU), would expect an Emer reducer, would expect the injectors to wear an Emer badge but actually they would be Valtek type 34 injectors.

It sometimes works out cheaper for pro installers to buy LPG systems in component form (ECU's, injectors, reducers, etc, not necessarily from the same supplier) or to buy complete kits but shelve parts that are not best suited to the vehicle in question (but which will at some point suit another vehicle) and buy extra parts for the vehicle in question (later, if said installer has suitable injectors and reducer on the shelf for another vehicle, the installer only needs buy an ECU to make another complete system, nothing gets wasted but on the whole the installer doesn't spend as much in parts over a period). Sometimes better results can be had if you don't limit yourself to the component lists of single name systems. The above, in addition to bulk buying, trade and loyalty type discounts, can be an area where installers like myself can make a mark-up when selling DIY kits to people like yourself - making a profit without increasing the kit cost to the DIY customer or at least not by much, but at the same time the DIYer gets exceptional support with service that might usually cost extra included for free - particularly relevant if there comes a point where you find you'd like to take it to a pro or supplier for some fettling, checking or just calibration.

A wide range of ECU's, injectors, reducers are appropriate for this model and most combinations of these components (but not all combinations) would work well.

Besides the usual list (above) of LPG system components, in addition to the tank and filler you will need a valve lube system (choice of electronic or vacuum type, choice of brands) and a solenoid controlled fuel return with around 0.8mm jet (various ways of accomplishing that). Seemingly not included in the kit in the link provided by Gilbert above.

If interested just get in touch, email and phone at the bottom of all my posts.

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Simon this is ever so helpfull and you have covered a vast range of questions i had. including a lube system.

i shall be in touch

regards

spencer


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:30 pm 
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I suggested contacting TT for the precise reason you mentioned Simon. Rather than buy an off the shelf kit, they will be able to recommend specific components to suit the install. The price also includes the tank and filler but they would also be able to advise on the lube system too. Far better to recommend them than, say, LPG Shop, who will sell all the bits but you need to know what bits you want and order them individually. As has been said many times before, you may save a few quid but you'll be on here constantly asking for advice.

I know there are installers on here that will supply a kit and give after sales support but yourself and Dai (Classicswede) are both a hell of a long way from Bristol which is why I didn't suggest contacting either of you. Rossko would have been a better bet but I know he is in the process of fitting out a new workshop so not sure if he would be able to help at this precise moment. Even TT are a good distance but they do stock a decent selection of parts, know what will suit an individual vehicle best and are well known for their good service. That's all.

_________________
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:11 pm 
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thanks ever so much guys for all the options.

i need to get an idea of all the costs/parts involved. so thats the next step

thanks again

spencer


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
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Location: Yorkshire
Gilbert, I don't think that you would deliberately avoid suggesting a DIY customer buys from an installer such as Dai or myself (that sell DIY kits). It might be expected that some installers wouldn't want to publicly steer DIY customers to another installer to buy a DIY kit, you wouldn't have to read far between these lines to see various reasons for that, but you're not an installer and wouldn't seem the type to be concerned anyway...

I will say I think you probably didn't know what level/extent of service such as myself provides to DIY self fit customers. If price is the same, if I have personally converted quite a few of these models, some recently (suppliers maybe not), if I will pick the phone up for a lengthy tech support chat even outside office hours (most won't) and on weekends (most won't), and if need be if I will then have the customer here to put minor issues right (most won't) and calibrate the system once fitted (most won't), and then I will give him a bit of paper that says it has been checked by a competent person (most won't), all at no extra cost.. Then I ask you what would be the pros and cons of taking this route? Bear in mind that most DIYers fit their systems after work and on weekends so are likely to come up with tech support queries when suppliers are usually shut. Where I have written 'most won't', on some points you could insert 'except at extra cost'.

I don't see how distance to a supplier is a point if the only suppliers considered don't do tech support after closing time or on weekends and don't include hands on calibration and safety checks anyway; parts arrive via courier and tech support is done on the phone / by emails. If Spencer was in Scotland, wouldn't you still have advised TT? I don't see how stock levels are relevant in this context, I have enough parts on the shelf to convert several of these vehicles.

Even if a DIYer didn't want to drive a considerable distance to take advantage of the free hands on stuff they would still have benefited from out of hours tech support. If a DIYer did have a problem which they simply couldn't put right themselves regardless of tech support, then if they had bought from me they would at least have the option of coming here for it sorting and most likely at no extra cost (not going to fit the full system for free but would do some pretty involved stuff for free). If they had bought from a supplier the only option would be to pay someone to sort it.

Just to put everything into a bit more context - I wouldn't hear anything wrong said about TT without defending them either, they are a great supplier, very knowledgeable and very reliable, I buy lots of stuff from them. But they are closed when DIY customers are most likely to need them and don't do the extra stuff like hands on problem sorting and calibration.

From a customer perspective I can't see any downsides regards buying a conversion kit from someone like myself instead of from a supplier but I can see the advantages - What do you reckon?

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


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