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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:21 am 
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Having real diffuculty figuring out if an LPG system can be fitted to my 93 LS400. So little space in the engine bay, unless fitment is done from underneath??

Only space is against the bulkhead passenger side. and even then if a Vap fitted it would need be East to West and for sinlge point a long way from the entry point which I believe is on the left side. looking in.

Anybody fitted a single point or a multipoint system to one of these older Lexus?

Sorry, Can't add photo as my board quota has been reached.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:45 pm 
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Converted loads on sequential, never had a problem with space... There are vehicles with far more crowded engine bays! Personally I wouldn't go the mixer route.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:37 pm 
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I've seen a few on mixers but would not recommend it (and I doubt the owners would). Done a few on multipoint and they are a common conversion

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:00 pm 
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Thanks for comments

I take point about mixer not being adviseable and will grapple with multipoint. Need to get the workshop manuel to see how this engine is put together as unfamilier with layout.

I believe that there are four Lambda's sensors on this car. Pre and Post Cat. Do all these get linked to the system?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:19 am 
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I've done a few as well. No problems as such. You connect up both pre oxygen sensors.
If you have a look at the socket marked 'diagnosis' under the bonnet both lambdas are in there. Infact they are very helpfully marked ox1 and ox2 inside the lid.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:30 pm 
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This looks like a good option for a single point system. Whats your expererience of these alternatives to basic mixers. Blurb seems encouraging and if chucking the Airbox (which I would prefer not to do, will allow a space for the Vaporiser.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLOS-Propane- ... 338e8b1b78


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:35 pm 
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Not taking the hint about staying away from single point then?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:09 pm 
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Its too complicated for me to install. Not keen to disturb Manifold /petrol injectors on a twenty years old Car covered in Aluminium dust when single point has worked OK for me on a Straight six Mercedes. I installed a blow back valve and only had one phut which caused no problem despite it being a plastic manifold, during the six years. I let it get too low on Gas and a trunk full of French booze up a steep long hill was too much of an ask.
So what is the opinion on these Blos or are they unwanted "competition" to a full sequential?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:58 pm 
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You do realise Blos is made by makers of sequential systems ....
No-one here is trying to sell you either, just advise the route with greatest chances of success.

Blos is a gas carb. Like comparing SU with Weber, it all depends on what you're working with. Needs setting up, probably more accurate than many generic mixers or spuds, not that relevant if electronic control is applied.
Chances of getting away with a mixer on an EFI engine depends on design and condition - wasted spark, valve events, valve wear.
Consequences of not getting away with it depends on design, manifold volume and construction etc.
One way to assess the risk is to seek others experiences. Comparing apples and oranges may not help here. We can generalise a bit and say the more simplistic an older EFI engine and its management are, i.e. the closer to a carb parentage, the greater the chances of success. Against that, we can set that engine wear and tear contributes to blow backs.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:11 pm 
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I've not felt under any pressure to go either way.
Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:43 pm 
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I appreciate you professionals don't recommend the single point route and don't think me as reckless as "toolless" (only read the thread on his conversion yesterday, with much mirth) but still prepared to see how it may work, or not, for me. I do need ananswer to a Question. As I note that the positioning of the Blos Carb will be pre the tube that goes to the IACV and an offshoot that goes somewhere else? Not sure where but will find out if you people can't tell me. What risk is of a gas mix going to the idle control valve and possibly elsewhere as opposed at present to just air going through those parts? I can divert the existing tube to the rear of the blos which will still be in front of the MAF sensor but would need attach to flexi tube and not hard plastic conduit, I suspect.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:49 pm 
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You want the gas mix to go through the idle air path, else it won't idle.

Worth looking at what the other tube is about, breather probably. You don't really want a sump full of gas.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:34 pm 
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I agree. Sorry I can't attach a photo as used my quota and assume cannot delete earlier images. also Photobucket although I've used in the past looks like it only wants to downlod everything on your computer so reluctant to get an IMG image this way.
At present the pipe to the IACV is a good six inches before the throttle body but this split off pipe goes somewhere. I can see both inducting air rather than blowing it somewhere. I recall improving a Merc ICV and cleaning out the soot in to get it to idle properly but don't know if this extra pipe actually is like some sort of EGR valve sucking in warm air from manifold/sump to combine with cold air from filter and then feeding through iacv and then to the throttle body ? More research as you say.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:08 pm 
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http://www.lextreme.com/pcv.html

You'll probably have to move the clean air pickup for the breather system upstream of the mixer, but take care not to lose any restrictor orifice.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:48 pm 
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Pretty sure this smaller diameter pipe comes up from crank case. Just booked car for cambelt change in three weeks time and will postpone until after this. Trusted mechanics always have a full diary, sadly. I can then also verify with mechnic that it is a CCV pipe. Only other concern I have with what is suggested as a simple addition, is that without a stepper motor and ECU for the lpg system the switch that cuts off the petrol supply and starts gas, is likely to register an Engine Diagnosis fault on the dash screen i would have thought? I'll ask the seller how they bypass this possible problem.
Thanks for the link


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Stuzewheels wrote:
Only other concern I have with what is suggested as a simple addition, is that without a stepper motor and ECU for the lpg system the switch that cuts off the petrol supply and starts gas, is likely to register an Engine Diagnosis fault on the dash screen i would have thought? I'll ask the seller how they bypass this possible problem.
Thanks for the link
No idea who suggested that Stu but he's got to be joking. What is being suggested is an open loop system, just about good enough for an engine originally fitted with a carb but totally inadequate on an injected engine fitted with cats. It might work after a fashion for a while but would definitely bring on the Check Engine light and destroy your catalytic converters (at the very least) in a very short space of time.

You've had the advice, but I appreciate that an 8 cylinder multipoint isn't going to be cheap. Your Merc survived with a lambda controlled, closed loop single point (although I'm not sure how with the flimsy plastic inlet manifold, just lucky I suppose) and your thinking is if that worked OK then surely the same system will on this. Not necessarily, it will depend on the type of ignition system, the cam timing and all sorts of other seemingly minor differences between the two engines. As a bare minimum you want to keep the lambda control and probably forget all about the Blos unit too. Whether it would be up to the job or not I've no idea, but you can buy a complete 8 cylinder multipoint system from our Polish friends for under £300.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:09 pm 
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Hi Richard, Check out the blos item I think i linked to the thread. Refer to its abilities and performance (albeit with perhaps an added a pinch of salt) or see the various youtube installation examples. Perhaps mainly carb engines shown, so Apples and Pears as rossco alluded to. Attempting a multipoint is not something I could do especially as i don't have a garage and nor do i trust myself to be clever enough. I have seen a blowback valve with screw in thread and Tinley have said a kit would be in region of 5 plus VAT inclusive of tank. A Standard Mixer of appropriate size with stepper and ECU together with a valve may be my best option if the Blos is really for only for open loop. Await your interpretation of the blos claims? I'm already spending a bundle on this car and so trying to keep expense in proportion.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:35 pm 
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I know some people have used a Blos on a closed loop system but really they are intended for open loop systems and, as you say, mainly fitted to engines equipped with carbs. There's differing levels of complexity used in the fuel systems on modern cars and ideally you want an LPG system that matches the petrol system. In your case this means a multipoint. If you've done any reading on here you will have seen the comments about modern direct injection engines not being suitable for conversion as current LPG technology hasn't yet caught up. If you can't match the petrol system, sometimes you can go back one step in technology. In your case this means a closed loop system but how well it will work is anyone's guess, it might work reliably, it might not. If it doesn't you've spent money on a system that is unsuitable so it's wasted.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:26 am 
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This Lexus is 21 years old and as it has a throttle body I'm assuming that it is not direct injection.Is that an incorrect assumption on my part. If I were to damage the car using a blos then that would be bad news and your points regarding the Cat and other consequences sound a bit extreme especially as the unit is clearly advertised for closed loop systems as well as open loop. If it did this, surely there would be enough critisism by now to destroy its credibility? As long as it did not blow up the engine then I can still revert to an internal mixer so the expense would not be wasted. There is someone local now who installs Multipoint so i may venture to check out if he is a "toolless" first, and then ask "how much". I'm unconvinced I need the full monty, though it would be nice. I've time to think about it waiting for the Cambelt change. A job I'd also not venture to do!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:46 am 
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A little Postscript to this. What surprises me is that there is virtually only one other thread mentioning the Blos - a unit which has been around a few years. Surely if troublesome I'd expect to find no end of threads with questions how to fix etc.. ?


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