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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Thanks Simon
I will try as soon as I get home to disable the diagnostic.
I am quite ok with replacing the coil, honestly half a litre of water every 5000 miles is not a big issue...
Reaching the solenoid and getting a spare is the real issue for me, do you have used coils?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Why would you want a used coil when a new one is a couple of quid?

Anyway you don't really need the reducer coil. You could remove the coil, remove the shaft that it sits on, from inside the shaft remove the plunger and the spring, refit the shaft. With diagnostics disabled the ECU won't make a fuss about the disconnected coil and without the plunger fitted the reducer solenoid will no longer shut off gas to the reducer. The reducer solenoid is there to shut off gas shortly before it reaches the reducer, so in case of a leak on the low pressure side (rubber hoses) not much gas would continue to escape in the event of a leak... so a bit of a negative in terms of safety but not much considering the tank solenoid is the main solenoid and any leak on the rubber hoses would result in only all the gas in the line between the tank and the front solenoid escaping rather than all the gas in the tank. This could at least rule out the reducer solenoid for you but keep the bits because you might want to refit them.

But hang on a minute, it just occurred to me that I don't think you've mentioned what type of LPG system you have yet? Very few systems have separate feeds to the tank solenoid and the reducer solenoid, so unless your system is one that does (such as AEB based and even then more likely on 5/6/8 cylinder ECUs rather than 4cyl ECUs) you shouldn't get a 'broken reducer solenoid' as long as one coil is still connected properly to the system (the resistance of one coil is usually easily low enough for the system not to generate such error because the systems usually look for open circuit). Even if your system is one of the few that does have a separate feed for reducer and tank solenoids. installers sometimes mix up the wiring between solenoids so a failed tank solenoid coil could be reported as a reducer solenoid coil problem or vice/versa. If your system only has one solenoid output you should be looking for something common between them failing such as a relay.. Even the high resistance of a relay coil can be enough to prevent a system detecting a failed coil, unless of course there's an intermittent fault where sometimes the ECU isn't properly connected to the relay coil.

What LPG system do you have (ECU)?

Edit - I just noticed you have King, still most of what I said above is relevant, though it's unlikely there's an external (to ECU) relay fitted on your system. There have been a few looms where the blue/black & blue with white stripe / black looms have been mixed up in the loom itself but I wouldn't spend much time on this aspect because it's far more likely that disabling diagnosis and removing the plunger from the reducer solenoid will sort you out.

Simon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:50 am 
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Hello Simon,
I did the test you recommended (disabling the diagnosis) but still the car won't switch on gas.
It doesn't show any error but the engine stalls and it switches back to petrol.
I can confirm that the tank solenoid works fine, I can hear a clear clack when switching to gas.
I am wondering if my "leaking injectors" could have been a result of the front solenoid not closing completely...

I will give you a call on Thursday to see when you are available, looks like I can't sort this on my own as I can't reach the evaporator..

EDIT: Brian running on petrol the car starts immediately in the morning, probably I had leaking injectors, but I have now installed the new internals in the injectors, lets see how they go when I get the gas back on...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:41 am 
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Location: Yorkshire
The simplist explanation is that your reducer solenoid isn't opening because your reducer solenoid coil is broken. Or can you hear this solenoid click open?

OK, talk Thursday.

When it's running again on gas have to see how well your injector rebuild went... This won't be the reason it refuses to run on gas but might be a problem with injectors when the first problem is sorted.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:31 am 
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Hi Simon,
Yes the solenoid has always been loud so I can clearly hear it when it opens.
I had the car running with the rebuilt injectors for about one hour and was going ok. (Before the coil packed)
Best to have a look at the obd once it's running..I got only an elm Bluetooth adaptor and it's not very quick..

I am in Sheffield every day but Friday Saturday and Sunday so I can pop in with little notice. So if anybody cancels I can get half a day off and drive in (about 25 minutes).


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Ok I had a better look today with the sunlight

the vaporiser is a OMVL westport, looks like a CPR.
There is a leak (lots of dried coolant) from the pipes (tried to tighten the jubilees but I need a T key which I do not have), probably the leak is only with hot engine.
The leaks drips straight on the coil that looks completely oxidised.
Managed to get the faston out but its really cramped, I think I am better off removing the battery and ECU to reach the coil with the hex key.
Not sure about the shaft, it might be a better idea to do the job once and install a new coil because looks like access to the shaft is going to be a nightmare. Said that, if the leak continues, the new coil is going to go bust again..
kinda annoying to see the target and be unable to reach it..and I have small hands!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:43 pm 
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managed to find a local lpg installer who changed the coil
Charged me 20 for the coil and 40 for the job!
Now the car switches on lpg but is not quite alright.
First 10 miles I got the engine light on, obd says front lambda is too rich on gas.
Did the procedure to check the injector (switch one by one checking that the engine rpm stays ok).
No issues at all..
Tried to do the autocalibration, it keeps going forever, the bar fills up to 70% then goes back to 20%...so can't autocalibrate (it might be my adaptor that is quite old).
idle on gas is high, petrol is around 800rpm on gas is around 1100 for some time then drops to 850.

Wondering if I have a failed vaporiser that is leaking lpg in the vacuum, is that even possible?
ok I did everything i could its time now for the professionals :)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Yes it's possible a failed reducer can leak gas out of it's vacuum port into the engine, since you know this you'll know how to check for it (pull vacuum pipe off engine when running on gas and see if any gas comes out of it).

If mixture was OK before you rebuilt the injectors, injectors are now suspect components.

We've spoken on the phone and hope to be seeing you shortly. Maybe you should have allowed me to fix the reducer solenoid coil too... I'd expect to sort all the problems quickly.

Simon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Simon,
I was planning to be coming next week anyway, but I wanted to see if I could find someone "knowledgeable" nearby for emergencies.
The gas guy was 10 miles away and was not expecting such a bill.
He went with, just a couple of quids, then presented me this bill for 15 min work.
Im not using the LPG for the time being, as the car is strongly smelling of gas when I do.
Pressure in the vaporiser doesn't stay when I switch to petrol, and while on gas, the idle goes up like someone is accelerating (like to 1500rpm). When driving instead goes fine.
I still have the original parts from the injectors in case the rebuild was not ok. but the mixture went "rich" and I rebuilt the injectors thinking they were the culprits..

I wanted to come to you also to see if the vaporiser could be moved to a more accessible place and to have a chat about my next car.
Ill ring you on monday to see when you are ok to have a look.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 pm
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Location: Milton Keynes
agostino wrote:
Simon,
I was planning to be coming next week anyway, but I wanted to see if I could find someone "knowledgeable" nearby for emergencies.
The gas guy was 10 miles away and was not expecting such a bill.
He went with, just a couple of quids, then presented me this bill for 15 min work.
Im not using the LPG for the time being, as the car is strongly smelling of gas when I do.
Pressure in the vaporiser doesn't stay when I switch to petrol, and while on gas, the idle goes up like someone is accelerating (like to 1500rpm). When driving instead goes fine.
I still have the original parts from the injectors in case the rebuild was not ok. but the mixture went "rich" and I rebuilt the injectors thinking they were the culprits..

I wanted to come to you also to see if the vaporiser could be moved to a more accessible place and to have a chat about my next car.
Ill ring you on monday to see when you are ok to have a look.


Clearly leaking somewhere - I'd suspect its the vapouriser wanting new diaphragms causing it unless you've managed to get the injectors assembled in a way they can leak.

You will learn more from going to Simon than most installers though.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Simon sorted the car for me today in a couple hours.
It pans out that the injector nozzles were too large and the car was going really @!##, he installed smaller nozzles and reduced the gas pressure.
Also built a new map that is working really well and doesn't have the acceleration troubles i was having before.
The smell is also gone, I suspect the injectors were pumping far too much gas inside the engine and it was leaking out and coming into the heating air intake..

thanks a lot Simon!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:27 am 
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Yeh all sorted!

The first thing I noticed was that MJ injectors were selected in software, the King firmware was imposing a minimum gas injector pulse duration of 3.8ms. With reducer pressure set at 1.1 and with the nozzles that were fitted the engine would only need about 2ms gas injection pulses for correct fuelling at idle... But 2ms is too short a pulse length for even MJ injectors to work properly at, and 2ms was with warm gas from a fully warmed reducer so the 2ms would need to be even shorter during warm up. No wonder it couldn't idle properly... Not to mention the petrol system idles at 3ms, so the gas injectors needed to pulse for a much shorter time than petrol injectors. During off idle driving the car was running way too lean because the map shape was what I might expect for a normally aspirated engine but the engine isn't normally aspirated...

I selected Matrix injectors (for which firmware doesn't impose a minimum pulse duration), fitted smaller nozzles, turned pressure down to 0.9bar and re-calibrated from there entering a map shape that I'd expect for the vacuum-less engine (very different map shape to the more usual shape map that the installer had set).

Agostino reported that the car had always seemed down on power when running on LPG, had never idled properly and there had always been a lot of hesitation on acceleration or when blipping the throttle. Given how the system was configured and calibrated I wasn't surprised to hear about any of those problems or that they had been present ever since the LPG system was fitted, but I sorted all the problems including the hesitation on acceleration/blipping and now the car goes just as well on LPG as on petrol just as it should.. far smoother, far more powerful, far better drive-ability and should be more economical.

One of 4 vehicle LPG systems I fixed and made better than ever yesterday.

Cheers Agostino!

Simon

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Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


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