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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:12 am
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Location: Birkenhead
Hi Guys,
SAAB 9000 2.3 turbo. I bought this car in 2011 with the lpg already fitted. I've used it as a daily driver since 2013 and have had no trouble with the lpg.
About six months ago it would occasionally not change over to lpg. It has now failed to change every time.

I have disconnected the gas pipes from the reducers (2 off) and remotely energised the solenoids. Gas emerged from the pipes under pressure.
I connected a lamp across the solenoids, visible from inside the car, and road tested it. The light illuminated at change over and went out on returning to petrol.
I overhauled the reducers (Landi Li-02). There was nothing apparently wrong but I changed the diaphragms anyway.
I replaced the filter.
After reassembly I tested it ...just the same.

I now thinking it could be the MAP sensor (Bosch 0 281 002 456). The cheapest I can find is £48. Is there anyway of testing this before I go for it.
Any help you can provide will be most appreciated.

Kind regards,
Rod


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Milton Keynes
Any idea which Landi ECU its using?

Getting a lead and the software looking at what its either saying as far as the readings show (you would be able to see the value its showing for the map sensor among other things) will give you somewhat of an idea where to start looking. (All the Landi ECUs use the same lead as far as I know, but the software is different).

The temperature sensor can be problematic - if it suspects its too cold due to a broken sensor (or a broken wire to the sensor) it won't switch over, though by the sounds of it you do see it attempt to switch over so its probably not that.

What does the switch lights do? Do you get any beeping from the switch when it tries to switch and fails?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:12 am
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Location: Birkenhead
Hi Brian
I did try, not long after I bought it, to connect up and get readings with no success. I will try again.

Start up.
Two steady green fuel gauge lights, one flashing green, one steady yellow.

Change over.
Two steady green fuel gauge lights, one steady green, one steady yellow.
Followed by,
No fuel gauge lights, one steady green, one steady yellow, plus beeping.
Press mute button,
One steady yellow only

It's just occured to me, could it be possible that the fuel gauge isn't working correctly and the gas pressure is too low to energise the pressure switch.
I'll try more gas tomorrow.


Thanks for your help.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2986
Location: Yorkshire
As Brian says, we could do with knowing which Landi system you have.

The map sensor you mention is probably the car's original (petrol) map sensor, it doesn't have a gas pressure sensor built in and isn't the LPG system's pressure sensor (which could be bad).

When it would run on gas, did it occasionally beep and switch back to petrol at unusual times (not booting it and when there was plenty of gas in the tank)?

Did the problem occur just after you'd had a flat or disconnected battery?

Simon

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 pm
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Location: Milton Keynes
If its beeping its detecting an error - the error could be anything really. If you use the wrong software it just will not work - Omegas will detect the lead provided the lead is working and drivers if its usb are installed correctly. (serial should just work).

First step is identify the ecu - you then will know/can confirm what software your need to use. If you can also confirm the type of lead - a USB one should show up in device manager, note you will need the right lead not just one with a matching plug! (KME and others use the same plug, but different pinout on the plug). If its in device manager set it to a low numbered com port (4 or below as long as nothing else is using that number - 1/2/3 or 4 should be fine)

The solid yellow light is showing its on petrol only (as you've used the switch to tell it to do so to shut up the non-stop beeping - one of the most annoying features i've known, as you switch it to petrol to shut it up when you have run out, only to forget to switch it back to gas when you've refilled!)

It could be detecting an injector error - that will cause it to fail, may be as simple as reseating the connectors (probably not a bad idea to do so if you can't get the lead to work at any rate). Beeping i'd suspect isn't the temp sensor, just would expect it to never switch if it wasn't working. The gas level reading does not matter its not taken into account.

If your really struggling then taking some photos of the bits you can find might help and posting them here (upload to another file host and link them - don't use photobucket!)

If its never worked and your new to dealing with LPG it might be best to go to an installer - I'd think possibly chucking your lead/laptop in the car at the same time might give you some answers at any rate, Provided you goto someone sensible - Simon would be one person I'd suggest who isn't too far from you, Dai (Classicsweede) the other installer that is still active on here is probably about the same difference in the other direction as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:12 am
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Location: Birkenhead
Hi Simon/Brian,

This is written on the control unit

LSI-NSI
Landi Sequencial Injection
3-4 cylinders
C.O.D. 032800049

MAP sensor is fitted to the end of the gas injector manifold.
I don't think I have ever heard it beep or switch to petrol unless it had run out of gas.
I had to disconnect the battery about six months ago, around the time the problem first started. I can't say for sure which was first.

Hope this helps,
Rod


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 pm
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Location: Milton Keynes
LSI helps - its not Omegas, What software are you using to connect with?

It should something like LSI NSI 2.2.0?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:12 am
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Location: Birkenhead
Our posts crossed Brian

I dont have the software a local guy tried to set it up for me when I first got the car. He's no longer arround.
Is there anywherer in uk I can buy a lead from? I can only find Bulgaria, Ukraine and Lithuania. The last two supply software as well.
I'll download the software when I get it.
I'll sort out photo's tomorrow.

Quote:
If its never worked and your new to dealing with LPG it might be best to go to an installer

I've had the car since 2011. Its never before put a foot wrong.
I am interested in sorting this myself as I have a couple of other cars I'd like to convert. Although I'm not afraid to go for help if I'm stuck.


Goodnight,
Rod


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 pm
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Location: Milton Keynes
WTV are UK based and sell leads with software. I will post a link later today when I get chance to. If you've got a lead then the software can be sorted.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 pm
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Location: Milton Keynes
http://lpg-kits.com/ is wtv. He has a lead listed for lsi. If you just need software then drop a message back.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2986
Location: Yorkshire
I fixed a Landirenzo LSI system just the other day. It's map sensor was a combined map and gas pressure sensor remote from the gas injection rail, a strange one but looked very similar to an AEB013. As far as I remember the standard AEB lead works - available from Tinleytech. Software is easy to get hold of, seems Bri has it, or I could upload it to my Dropbox so you could download it from there.

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Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


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