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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:50 am 
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Hi
My lpg single point classic range rover v8
Seems to run fine but when I slow down
For a junction/traffic it cuts out and ignition
Lights come on .RE start of petrol and good again
Till I slow down
Any help please Andy


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:27 pm 
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Most likely ram air. You need to move the air ducting so it does not fave forward

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:23 pm 
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classicswede wrote:
Most likely ram air. You need to move the air ducting so it does not fave forward

It's running with a snorkel if that makes any difference


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:49 pm 
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Yes, that's the cause. Take it off and throw it away, they aren't needed, the distributor will be under water and you'll have lost the sparks long before it sucks water into the air intake.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:58 pm 
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Or at least point the snorkel intake so it faces rearwards. That's generally a good idea anyway so you don't get leaves and things in it when driving through narrow forest tracks.

Of course those of us that take our 4x4s through deep water have mechanical fuel pump diesel engines rather than petrol - no electricity needed once it's started, so it can be at the bottom of a lake and still run as long as the air intake is clear and the water pressure isn't too high on the exhaust ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:23 am 
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Facing it reawards still causes problems. The snorkels just do not work well with a mixer

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:51 am 
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rich r wrote:
Of course those of us that take our 4x4s through deep water have mechanical fuel pump diesel engines rather than petrol - no electricity needed once it's started, so it can be at the bottom of a lake and still run as long as the air intake is clear and the water pressure isn't too high on the exhaust ;)
Dad and his mates clubbed together and bought a little old diesel tractor for boat launching to extend the time they could spend on boats between tides, since at low water the slope of the slipway wasn't steep enough to prevent a launch vehicle getting wet (previously they'd attached chains between a Landrover and boat trailers but you can't push on a chain and the slipway was bumpy towards the bottom). The tractor could go deep in the water no problem, which led to discussion with a fellow boat owner who had an old diesel 4x4 about the merits of diesels in the wet.. and his 4x4 already had a snorkel. Didn't know the guy was going to act on the info or might have brought up diff / gearbox / engine / brake fluid reservoir / battery breathers.. and car radios :lol: It lived but needed some milky fluids changing, bloke reckoned it was probably more worrying being sat chest deep in a 4x4 cab with a roof overhead than sat on an open tractor that you could just float off if need be. On another occasion at the same peninsula 'resort' in Wales, I remember floating in a canoe above a car with it's lights still glowing on a spring tide, someone had tried to drive onto 'Shell Island' while the tied was coming in but the car had stalled and they'd had to abandon it :lol: Nearly all cars were petrol then, dad reckoned he'd have made it in his Pug504 diesel (wouldn't have cut out while the water was still relatively shallow) but the saltwater wouldn't have done it a lot of good.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Yes, you should extend all the breathers up the snorkel too. Personally I've never been deeper than where there door seals just start to leak. Also crack the diff, sump, gearbox and fuel tank drain plugs after exiting the water to check that none got in - and if it did, change the oil when you get home.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:28 pm 
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The Classic didn't have them but on the P38 the gearbox, transfer box and both axles are all sealed but have breather tubes that run up to the top of the bulkhead so water can't get in but nothing pressurises. I did the off road course at Land Rover and they reckon anything up to the middle of the headlights is do-able, anything deeper than that isn't. Advantage with the P38 is the air suspension where you can lift the car by 2 inches at the touch of a button on the dash.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:54 am 
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A bit of a mischievous post by me really :lol: Old skool diesels were likely a better bet than petrols around water due to lack of ignition components and electronics, though the other points can level the playing field a bit and at least no water could ever make it into an LPG fuel system.

I've thought about this before... Don't Gems use 5-0v lambdas and Bosch use 0-1v... Thinking the 5-0v sensors don't need an external oxygen (air) reference while the 0-1v sensors do.. so 5-0v sensors should be OK under water but 0-1v will be fubarred if under water. I see a lot of replaced 0-1v sensors where the probe wire overshields (for want of a better term) don't extend down over the probe, so probe air reference is open to the elements at the probe rather than higher in the engine bay. But then again, P38 lambda connections are low in the engine bay anyway... Willing to stand being corrected but I've always seen this as one advantage of Gems over Bosch.

Simon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:50 am 
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You are absolutely correct, GEMS uses 5-0V while Thor uses 0-1V. The original genuine Bosch is a Titania sensor but configured as 0-1V (as the OBD2 standard calls for a 0-1V signal) rather that 5-0V so doesn't need the air reference which is why they are £130 each. However, a generic Zirconia will still work, and is a lot cheaper, so a lot of people fit them instead and lose the advantage of them getting all offended the first time they get dunked in water.

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'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:28 pm 
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Why don't you all start a POST about it
Then I can get answers about my issue
Ram air /snorkels did you read my post
It's WHEN SLOWING DOWN
Not going faster .maybe someone who
Has got an idea might put an answer up


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:49 pm 
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You've got an answer, the problem is ram air caused by the snorkel. A single point mixer system assumes that the air pressure at the intake remains at a constant pressure. With a snorkel the air pressure, and hence the volume of air going in, will increase with speed, so it'll be running lean, as you slow down, the air pressure will drop so it'll go rich and die on you. Even fitting a free flow air filter, such as a K&N, will cause a car on a singlepoint to go rich at idle and that is assuming the air filter is still drawing still air in rather than having it shoved in.

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'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:55 pm 
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Yours was a very simple problem, we all knew the answer, all the info you needed was posted within 26 minutes of your snorkel post. With your problem thoroughly answered we've moved onto entertaining ourselves in the 3 days since your last post. If you still had reservations about the answer you could have mentioned them at any point during the time you were away. If you prefer 100% attention you could always bring your vehicle in.

Simon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:17 pm 
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LPGC wrote:
If you prefer 100% attention you could always bring your vehicle in.
Where Simon could remove the snorkel and prove to you that it is the cause of your problem.

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:10 am 
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It had same problem before the snorkel with standard air box and filter
Forgot to say


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:38 am 
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In that case more info is needed. Open loop single point or lambda controlled? If lambda controlled what controller does it use and do you have the cable and software to see what it is doing? What vaporiser is fitted and how old is it?

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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:56 am 
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flyingbanana wrote:
It's running with a snorkel if that makes any difference

flyingbanana wrote:
It had same problem before the snorkel with standard air box and filter
Forgot to say
If problem is exactly the same, you'd know yourself the snorkel didn't make any difference.
Ram air could be a factor with a mixer system with or without a snorkel, with a snorkel it almost certainly will be.

Off on a tangent again but I'll include this.. I once sorted a single point system on a vehicle where the owner and his mate both told me the system, as it stood, had previously worked great. This led me to initially rule out a few basics such as mixer venturi size etc but in the end I found the mixer fitted had a totally incorrect venturi size and could only conclude the vehicle had never run properly with the parts fitted. Then the guys admitted they'd fitted the system about a year ago having got parts from a different model vehcile at a scrapyard and it had never worked properly. They thought that by telling porkies they'd save some money, points such as venturi size etc that pros talk about not being nearly as critical in their view as pros made out, and that by telling me it had worked properly I'd focus on making adjustments and get it to work properly without changing parts instead of first checking parts fitted were suitable (and therefore more likely to tell them parts had to be changed). A new mixer and reducer got it running great but it took longer to sort the problem due to the disinformation.

Simon

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:46 pm 
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It is amost impossible to get a snorkel to work with a mixer. My advice is always dont bother.

The range rover can suffer from ram air with the original air intake system. This can be solved by turning the intake pipes facing to the side or backwards or by placing a dam in from of teh intake to block direct forward air from entering

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:48 am 
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Gilbertd wrote:
In that case more info is needed. Open loop single point or lambda controlled? If lambda controlled what controller does it use and do you have the cable and software to see what it is doing? What vaporiser is fitted and how old is it?

It's single point I think it's lambda control? It's tartarin Tex99 I have no cable to check or test
Don't know if this helps :D


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