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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:33 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2989
Location: Yorkshire
In June 2016 I converted an RX300 for Sorceror (his name on this forum and Lexus Owners Club forum). Without any prompt from myself he posted pics of his converted vehicle on Lexus Owners Club Forum, which got a great thumbs up.

Last month I converted another RX300, so I saw fit to join the Lexus Owners Club forum and post pics of this latest RX300 on the same thread. The quote below gives some insight into what happened next...

LPGC wrote:
sorcerer wrote:
Absolutely, definitely one hundred percent highly recommend Simon in South Elmsall, Yorkshire http://www.lpgc.co.uk

He did our Lexus RX300 in July and did a brilliant job - couple of pictures here http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/108697-lpg-conversion-and-the-petrol-gauge/

By the way Simon, I could have sworn I saw a picture of another RX300 that you've done recently tagged on to the bottom of that topic but it's gone now. Was I seeing things or was it really there? :shock:


Hi John, the forum admin Bluesman removed my post and sent me a stern PM explaining it was because I'd advertised. The gist of my reply was that although I implied a bit of an ad for myself (which would be the case anyway considering my username on other forum is also LPGC...), what I wrote wasn't a blatant off the cuff ad because it was on the same subject as your thread, and I could be of benefit to his forum as most of my time spent on forums is helping people with LPG problems without much in the way of an ad/benefit for myself... but I probably wouldn't do that as often if I couldn't sometimes put a word in for myself. He took exception again, reckoning I'd implied blackmail and implying they already have enough LPG experts (yeh right :lol:)... I've just replied to that saying I didn't imply blackmail, it's common sense that I probably wouldn't reply as much if my business had to remain anonymous, and that I wouldn't have much faith in LPG expertise of Lexus forum users who aren't LPG specialists... And then I added that users on many forums are often pointed by others to Lpgforum and therefore to myself, so another way of looking at it is that traffic is diverted from those forums to this Lpgforum, with all the implications regards advertising revenues etc that entails :lol: And I asked what would happen, in the case my business had to be anonymous, if his other forum users pointed out I was an Lpg pro... because then the situation really would start to get silly :roll: It's not like I was trying to advertise, say, poly-bushes by mail order while not helping forum users.. My intentions on forums are to help others while at the same time building recognition of my skills and expertise. If I were to start a thread on this forum (and I think I will) about the latest RX300 I just converted and how similar it is to your conversion, maybe you'd post a link to it from your relevant thread on that forum? :twisted: :lol:

Thanks for the thumbs up from everyone :D

Simon


Since then there have been a few more messages exchanged between Lexus Owners Club Forum moderator Bluesman and myself. During the course of all this he has removed every post that I made on that forum (which amounted to only two posts and the second post didn't even mention the RX300 I had converted, neither post referred to another company, the second post only talked about valve lube systems being necessary on Lexus vehicles), removed his own posts that referred to me, barred me from posting directly (anything I post must now be approved seemingly by himself before it will appear on that forum) and now the latest - he has disabled my ability to send or even see private messages, even though the only person I ever sent a private message to on that forum was himself!

To a forum moderator who has disabled my ability to send or even see private messages on a forum it may seem I have no way of recovering those messages. But I do have a way, because before he disabled messages I copied and pasted them all to a text file, which I have now copied and pasted below. This may make for interesting reading for those who believed Lexus Owners Club Forum was transparent and unbiased. Though I can certainly see why a moderator would take issue with a blatant advert from a professional, particularly when other pros in the same field pay that forum to advertise, I see no legitimate reason why a forum moderator would go the considerable extra distance, which seems above their remit, to prevent others with expertise in that field from commenting at all.. Particularly when posts from such expert don't even imply advertising but include information that might prevent some of their forum members from suffering engine damage on their vehicles.

Messages between forum moderator Bluesman and LPGC on Lexus Owners Club Forum wrote:
Discussion 1: Conversation
Bluesman
Bluesman 604
Started conversation: October 27 · Report
If you wish to advertise your business on the LOC you will need to go through the proper channels and pay for the privilege. Mike.
Quote
Lpgc
Lpgc 0
Replied: October 27 · Report
No thanks Mike,

I never go for the direct sell on forums but I do give a lot of useful advice which other admins reckon increases forum usefulness, reads, memberships and attracts other advertisers. If I'm not allowed to occasionally start a thread on something I've done regards LPG I may visit a bit less often but no doubt writers of posts concerning LPG issues will be pointed to me on Lpgforum by others anyway. I thought Sorceror and others posting on his thread might be interested to see another RX300 converted very similarly to his, a bit of a cheeky advertisement opportunity without being totally blatant.

Thanks,

Simon
Quote Edit
Bluesman
Bluesman 604
Replied: October 27 · Report
Hi Simon, we have many very knowledgeable members on LPG already, I myself have run all my cars on LPG for the last 17 years. You cant try and blackmail us by saying if you are not allowed to cheekily advertise then you wont visit us as often, how often you visit is up to you but if you persist in advertising however cheeky you think it is you will be banned. All commercial outfits have to pay for their advertising there are no free rides.

The choice is yours. Mike.




Quote
Lpgc
Lpgc 0
Replied: October 28 · Report
Hi Mike,

I see a potential quandary for a forum admin - allow pros/experts to answer others questions which adds to forum usefulness/readership/potential ad revenues, this sometimes implying a bit of advertising for their business, or don't allow them - A business decision about striking the right balance because without knowledgeable people a forum isn't much use. There's a difference between an expert user who adds to forum usefulness and a trader blatantly advertising, say, mail order poly bushes who does nothing for forum usefulness. Pro experts aren't as likely to post without potential benefit to themselves, such as if their business had to remain anonymous - Not blackmail, common sense. As Lpgforum's perhaps best expert and definitely most prolific poster I probably generate most of the interest in the site, I certainly wouldn't pay Lpgforum I would start my own forum first! Regardless of whether I am allowed to post on other forums, those with LPG issues on other forums are often pointed to Lpgforum and therefore to myself - or another way of looking at it, diverted from the forum they were reading to me Lpgforum and myself. This happens on a regular basis even though there are many users of LPG, some with a fair bit of knowledge, on other forums.

I posted a pic of an RX300 I just converted on a thread where another of my RX300 conversions was pictured by another user - OK except for what I wrote? Could you clear up what type of things I can/cannot post? If I reply on a post about an LPG issue should I refrain from saying I am an LPG pro? If so, what if another user points out that I am an LPG pro?

Regards, Simon
Quote Edit
Bluesman
Bluesman 604
Replied: October 28 · Report
Hi Simon, I am assuming you have not read the T&Cs of the forum. Here's a link http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/terms-conditions/

The one rule which is pertinent to your situation reads as follows...... Don’t post any message that even hints at advertising.

Regards Mike.
Quote
Lpgc
Lpgc 0
Replied: October 29 · Report
Hi Mike,

I hadn't read the T&C's because I expected them to be the same as other forums, just read them following your prompt.

So can I post a pic of the other RX300 on Sorceror's thread and write something that doesn't hint at advertising like 'snap!, or would you class my posting the pic as advertising even though the relevancy is there?

Regards,

Simon

Discussion 2: Conversation
Bluesman
Bluesman 604
Started conversation: Wednesday at 01:10 PM · Report
There are two ways of doing things the right way and the wrong way and you seem set on the wrong way regarding the LOC. What other forums do has no bearing on what the LOC allow or not allow.

I warned you on more than one occasion that if you wanted to advertise your business on the LOC you would need to pay as everyone else has too.

I also warned you that Any members opposing a moderator’s decision should do so with the moderator directly by using PM or email in a professional manner. Any member purposely creating posts or threads opposing a moderators’ decision will result in the member’s forum account being closed permanently however you still continued too discuss it in the open forum.

Any further posts will now be subject to moderators checking first before being allowed on the open forum. Mike.
Quote
Lpgc
Lpgc 0
Replied: Wednesday at 06:19 PM · Report
Hi Mike,

In reply to your previous PM I would like to oppose some of your decisions - Is there another forum moderator I could discuss with please?

Why have you deleted further posts, including your own post - in which you quoted my post (in full) and then went on to give a massive thumbs up to Profess without addressing any of the factual points I'd made? And in the process managing a lot of generalisation (which you reckon you're against) based on your comparatively very limited experience and lack of any insider or technical knowledge (compared to my own).

You have had your own vehicle(s) converted by Profess and Profess are 'authorised merchants' on this forum. Does that equate to bias for Profess by this forum? Or by yourself? If the answer to either of those questions is yes then how (and this links back to a similar point I made to you in an earlier PM) do you reckon that effect this forum's impartiality and usefulness to users?

It is easy to win an argument and make your point publicly when you are able to easily mute/delete arguments made by others that you'd rather not be made. I wonder if you didn't like my factual points about OMVL reducers being capable of flowing enough gas for little over 200bhp / all Japanese vehicles should be fitted with an engine valve lubrication system in order to prevent VSR...

The latter point might save some of your forum users suffering engine damage to their vehicles but might also by implication be seen as a negative against some installers. In an earlier PM to you I also mentioned potential quandary situations for forum moderators.. is this type of situation a quandary for you or should allowing info like that be a no brainer?

So far you have: Deleted my post (which contained a picture of an RX300 I converted in October 2016) on the same thread as one started by one of your other forum users on the subject of his RX300 that I converted in June 2016. Deleted multiple posts made by me (and by yourself) on a thread entitled something like 'Pics of my LS400 converted by Profess'. On this thread one of your forum users has recommended me to another user and in my posts I gave factual information without mentioning any company names. All of my posts were relevant and might have proved useful for some of your forum readers, particularly on the point of engine valve lube systems.

Simon
Quote Edit
Bluesman
Bluesman 604
Replied: Thursday at 06:47 PM · Report
Hi I haven't ignored your last PM but have been in London since last night. I have only just arrived home and I am absolutely worn out so to write you a full reply to your last PM I will leave it until tomorrow. Mike.
Quote
Lpgc
Lpgc 0
Replied: Thursday at 09:52 PM · Report
No problem Mike, thanks for the reply.

Regards,

Simon
Quote Edit
Bluesman
Bluesman 604
Replied: Friday at 04:52 PM · Report
Hi Simon. Once again sorry for the delay in answering your last PM to me.

Advertisers on the LOC do so and have to pay. Now if you were one of those that had paid and then this guy comes along and advertises his business for free you would quite rightly be outraged and its those advertisers that we are protecting.

You mention the fact that I have spoken of Profess on a number of occasions. Anyone of the membership can post about a good deal or good service from any company with out breaking the LOC T&Cs, the reason for that is that the person who is nominating them does not have any financial gain by promoting the company. Doing what you did was was trying to advertise for free a company that you own and again that's not fair to those that do pay for the privilege.

When I first put that to you about having to pay for advertising your reply was you dont pay for advertising and just add any advertising in a cheeky manner, I replied to you that you couldn't do that. your reply to that was, other forums allow promoting and advertising without payment and that the LOC would be the poorer for not getting LPG knowledge as you wouldn't be able to post if you couldn't cheekily advertise. I told you that all forums are different and have different rules, I advised you too read the T&Cs of the LOC and you said you did but it didn't stop you from answering a post on the thread in question by saying that you spent most of your time at work sorting out other peoples LPG mistakes. The T&Cs say that you cant even hint at advertising but you obviously never got that far in the T&Cs or chose to ignore that rule.

When members have had LPG problems if we haven't got a member come up with a solution they have often gone to the UKLPG site so the same knowledge can be found.

The rules also state that if you have a problem with the moderators decision you must either reply by PM or email how ever you also chose to ignore that rule by posting on the thread your dissatisfaction with what I had done.

We welcome knowledgeable members from any quarter but you have announced too the membership that you own an LPG business and therefore makes it almost impossible for you too post which is why I have put Content Moderated on your account to see if it can work with your postings.

I will also advise you should you should think of contacting the LOC membership by using PMs will result in an immediate ban.

I know you wont be happy with what I have replied but this is my final word on the subject. Regards Mike.


Quote
Lpgc
Lpgc 0
Replied: Friday at 07:07 PM · Report
Hi Mike,

Where have I said on forum that I convert vehicles, especially now that you have deleted posts? Other people have pointed that out but on this forum there is currently no content from myself. Even so, you seem to be more or less saying that I cannot comment on LPG matters, on pain of receiving a ban, just in case any point I make might reflect negatively on those advertisers you wish to protect?

Where have I advertised? Other than discussing technical points regards LPG I don't see that I have, again especially since you have deleted all my posts.

Where would you set the balance between useful information on the forum and protecting advertisers? I.e. Suppose an advertiser is in the business of converting vehicles to LPG but does not install engine valve lube systems on vehicles on which they are necessary to prevent VSR, is it still better to protect them than to allow forum members to be told that kind of information by someone with technical knowledge whom has not paid to advertise? Would you delete a post by a user who was not an LPG pro if in that post they mentioned such points that might be seen as a negative against your advertiser?

I'm not allowed to send PM's to other forum users now either? I will certainly have the phone numbers of some of those with LPG fitted I've seen on this forum because I converted their vehicles. Again, no threat or blackmail implied but just common sense. Will I be banned if I phone or txt or chat on a different forum to those people? Will people be banned if they refer to me / mention that I am a good LPG pro? It would seem a slippery slope to get started on.

I'm afraid it seems to me that your thoughts/methods on protecting advertisers goes over the top. I would have thought that paying to be allowed to advertise would put advertises in a position where they could blatantly advertise, as in 'LPG conversions from £900, the busiest in Wales, come to us', rather than being so obviously protected by a moderator(s) on that forum, perhaps to the detriment of some forum users and the forum itself.

No insinuations of under handed dealing implied but I did ask if I could discuss with another moderator, are you the only one?

Regards,

Simon
Quote Edit
Bluesman
Bluesman 604
Replied: yesterday at 12:04 AM · Report
On 04/11/2016 at 7:07 PM, Lpgc said:
Hi Mike,

Where have I said on forum that I convert vehicles, especially now that you have deleted posts? Other people have pointed that out but on this forum there is currently no content from myself. Even so, you seem to be more or less saying that I cannot comment on LPG matters, on pain of receiving a ban, just in case any point I make might reflect negatively on those advertisers you wish to protect?

Where have I advertised? Other than discussing technical points regards LPG I don't see that I have, again especially since you have deleted all my posts.

Where would you set the balance between useful information on the forum and protecting advertisers? I.e. Suppose an advertiser is in the business of converting vehicles to LPG but does not install engine valve lube systems on vehicles on which they are necessary to prevent VSR, is it still better to protect them than to allow forum members to be told that kind of information by someone with technical knowledge whom has not paid to advertise? Would you delete a post by a user who was not an LPG pro if in that post they mentioned such points that might be seen as a negative against your advertiser?

I'm not allowed to send PM's to other forum users now either? I will certainly have the phone numbers of some of those with LPG fitted I've seen on this forum because I converted their vehicles. Again, no threat or blackmail implied but just common sense. Will I be banned if I phone or txt or chat on a different forum to those people? Will people be banned if they refer to me / mention that I am a good LPG pro? It would seem a slippery slope to get started on.

I'm afraid it seems to me that your thoughts/methods on protecting advertisers goes over the top. I would have thought that paying to be allowed to advertise would put advertises in a position where they could blatantly advertise, as in 'LPG conversions from £900, the busiest in Wales, come to us', rather than being so obviously protected by a moderator(s) on that forum, perhaps to the detriment of some forum users and the forum itself.

No insinuations of under handed dealing implied but I did ask if I could discuss with another moderator, are you the only one?

Regards,

Simon

Simon. Please read what I have put properly as you clearly haven't understood.

Of course we protect advertisers right to advertise against those that dont or wont pay for advertising, you would expect the same if you ever paid for it.

As for discussing it with another moderator read the T&Cs thoroughly.

If you want to advertise what you do for a living then like everywhere else its going to cost you money.

With regards to what you have advertised in the past, read your posts and keep in mind as you read them "you are not allowed to even HINT at advertising"
Quote
Lpgc
Lpgc 0
Replied: just now · Report
Hi Mike,

I re-read what you put in PM's and I re-read the T&C's but still I don't see a direct answer to my question about discussing with another moderator. Above you explained if someone has a problem with a moderators (plural?) decision they must contact 'the' moderator... so that's an appeals procedure then? An appeals procedure should surely involve a third party or it would be all too obvious what the outcome would be (same as the original outcome)?

I'll try to impress one of the points I tried explaining in my last message to you in a different context so hopefully you'll understand and manage a reply, because so far my point hasn't been answered - To what extent should you be protecting advertisers? I.e. What if an advertisers product may lead to engine damage for readers of your forum, should you still remove any posts that point that out?

Do you only accept a single advertiser for a particular type of product? If the forum allows multiple advertisers for the same type of product and there is a disagreement between them, how could you protect each from the claims of other? The implications are perhaps one of the reasons why it seems to me you go over the top in terms of advertiser protection. An example situation - If I were to pay for advertising and point out that I fit valve lubrication systems on all Japanese vehicles that I convert to prevent VSR engine damage but another of your advertisers (that converts vehicles) did not fit valve lubrication systems then readers could gather form that the the other firms product could lead to engine damage, yet your stance would mean you'd need to protect both of us by allowing me to promote my firm by saying I fit valve lube systems to prevent VSR and... well, how could you protect the other firm in this situation? You would have put yourself in an impossible position. And indeed in terms of useful, full and correct content on the forum that might help prevent readers suffer engine damage you might be putting yourself in that position even without my advertising. This is probably why other forums allow users to pay for blatant advertising but do not get involved in defending advertisers other than preventing blatant advertising by those that have not paid for advertising. To some forum users, knowledge of the forum or a moderators stance of protecting advertisers from all contesting comments or even negative discussion of an advertisers product may come as surprising and when this position is so vehemently upheld by a single moderator who has had dealings with the advertiser and seems on friendly terms with them this may lead to users questioning the moderators stance and motives.

I cannot read my posts because you have deleted all of them. You have even deleted your own posts in which you referred to me / quoted me, so at the moment there is zero content from me on this forum. Although of course we'll both remember what was said and moderators may still have access to them. 



I feel it necessary to ask you again if there is another moderator I can discuss this with? If you like to be considered as at all open by forum users including myself then I would be surprised if you didn't think this a good idea too.

And incidentally, how would I go about advertising on your forum please?

Regards,

Simon


Since Lpgforum is referred to regularly on the Lexus forum when the subject of LPG conversion is brought up, I imagine this thread will be read by those discussing LPG on the Lexus forum. Of course, Bluesman may decide to go a bit more OTT and remove any mention of Lpgforum on the Lexus forum too, perhaps on pain of barring any Lexus forum member who mentions Lpgforum, or mentions myself, or mentions any other installer, or points out anything that might be interpreted as implying a negative point against his advertisers (whom incidentally converted his own vehicles)...

Simon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:19 pm 
Junior Member

Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:52 pm
Posts: 200
Location: West Sussex
Sorry mate - you are only no.5, closely followed by classicswede - memberlist.php?mode=&sk=d&sd=d

I empathise with the above, some moderators are OTT although I can understand that they have to protect their paying advertisers to an extent.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:55 am 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2989
Location: Yorkshire
Talkingcars wrote:
Sorry mate - you are only no.5, closely followed by classicswede - memberlist.php?mode=&sk=d&sd=d

Fair enough :lol: Most prolific poster in recent times maybe... ;)
Talkingcars wrote:
I empathise with the above, some moderators are OTT although I can understand that they have to protect their paying advertisers to an extent.
I can agree with that mate, thanks for the post, it's good to read a forum moderators view. Yes I understand why they would stop others from advertising (to protect paying advertisers privileged position of being able to advertise) but Bluesman seems to go OTT, totally expanding on that. He effectively does some advertising for them in his own posts and defends them against any comment he thinks might be interpreted as a negative against them (including by means of bans etc). This seems above the remit of a forum moderator.

Some analogies - Firms pay to advertise in newspapers but if a newspaper reporter wrote a report in the same paper on that firm's products, readers may consider that report in a very different light if at the top of that report there was wording to the effect 'The following report is an advertisement feature'. Without the 'this is an advert' info, readers may think the report is the considered opinion of both the reporter and the newspaper and therefore seem much more valid and to carry much more weight... but the reader would be being misled, perhaps in this case by a reporter with his own agenda. Colgate may pay to advertise on the back of a bus but if this led to discussion on the bus about Colgate versus McCleans we wouldn't expect the bus conductor to mute the pro McCleans points on pain of kicking the pro McCleans people off the bus. The common sense situation would be for the bus firm to protect the paid for privilege of Colgate to advertise on the back of the bus while preventing McCleans from writing pro McCleans ads on the bus for free, no need to get anymore involved than that. In these analogies Bluesman has put himself and his forum in the position of both the loose cannon reporter and the OTT bus conductor. Because he doesn't include 'this is an advert' info and is able to mute the insights/views of others before they are even read on his forum, his forum has carried a bias which his forum users were not aware the full extent of.

On top of that, motives may be questioned if the reporter was in some way benefited by the firm or the bus conductor was in some way involved with Colgate.

Simon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:56 pm
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Some forum mods sorry god's can be twats and I think you have found one there. You can try contacting another MOD or admin but I doubt you would get anywhere as the mods tend to stick together.
Most forums support pros and traders but odds ones get pissed off with fighting amongst traders and just don't want them.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:41 pm 
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Of the top ten posters John d and myself have been here the longest. I tend to post in phases when I have the time to look on the forum.

I have seen this forum and many others slow down mainly thanks to facebook groups etc that seem to have taken over forums. A shame as forums are the best places to find information and search for answers.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
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classicswede wrote:
Some forum mods sorry god's can be twats and I think you have found one there. You can try contacting another MOD or admin but I doubt you would get anywhere as the mods tend to stick together.
Most forums support pros and traders but odds ones get pissed off with fighting amongst traders and just don't want them.
Agreed Dai.
The LPG pros on that forum (the one LPG firm that is allowed to post it would seem) will only be familiar with the Stag system because that's all they fit, and it doesn't seem they answer many LPG questions or post much at all.

Simon

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:39 pm 
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If it was the so called pro I thought I did not know that they fit systems. I thought random parts got thrown at the car in the hope that an autocal would allow the engine to run to some extent....

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:09 pm 
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classicswede wrote:
If it was the so called pro I thought I did not know that they fit systems. I thought random parts got thrown at the car in the hope that an autocal would allow the engine to run to some extent....
Almost random parts except for the ECU which is always Stag and nearly always not fitting valve lube system even on vehicles where one should be fitted like in Lexus vehicles (instead side stepping questions by talking around the issues with BS answers http://s311955281.websitehome.co.uk/profess/index.php/forum/general-discussion/34-additives-for-valve-seat-lubrication-flashlube-et). Referring to the link, how are octane rating or bent valves supposed to relate to VSR? How does driving 75miles in one day cause any less or more VSR than driving 75 miles in two days? If we interpret from 'driven on a racetrack' as 'driven hard' then since even a driver on the road can put his foot down a bit (especially if, say, late for work, or cruising on a quiet motorway, or towing..) what is the difference between being on a racetrack and being on the road in terms of VSR? In the same thread it is also implied that post 1997 vehicles don't suffer VSR, when of course they do. There is no explanation of how lube systems work - We all agree that LPG burns very cleanly and petrol burns less cleanly - because petrol burns less cleanly it leaves a layer of soot on valves which acts like a lubricant and protects valves that are made out of softer than average valve metal (like on Jap and Ford vehicles), when the lube burns it (like petrol) forms a layer of soot on valves thus affording the valves some of the protection that petrol offers.. a simple enough concept to explain but maybe they'd rather not explain if chucking a system on in a day and want to 'advise' a low price. Still, as they imply, VSR won't be a problem if customers don't drive far and never put their foot down... but in terms of long term health of the engine this isn't a good assumption to make :roll:
We know that another thing that can cause VSR is a lean mixture but they don't adjust or check open loop mixture because they leave Stag's autocal to do the calibration but autocal is incapable of calibrating open loop mixture (and incapable of adjusting pressure or nozzle sizes). Still, leaving the system to 'autocal' cuts out all the time that an installer who does a thorough job would usually spend on calibrating the system properly so also helps with getting an install done in a day and keeping prices low. We can all buy/fit Stag but most of us prefer other ECUs - Let's remember Stag was the cheapest and one of the least well regarded systems ever available but lots of us fitted them on very basic vehicles where anything over such a basic ECU would have been overkill, then better systems became available at not much extra cost so even on basic vehicles most of us started fitting those instead of Stag, in the meantime Stag sales to general installers dried up and Profess started exclusively fitting Stag, so maybe a decision to artificially raise Stag prices was made in the interests of making it seem that Profess were not fitting the cheapest available on the market when actually Profess continued to buy Stag at the same old low prices. Many ECU's offer the same type of autotuning systems, some do autotuning better than Stag, but regardless of whether an ECU features autotuning we turn it off and do a proper manual job of calibration anyway.
We could all advise customers to buy an interface cable from us (at extra cost), which would allow us to use free remote computer access software (for any LPG ECU) to make changes to calibration in the event of obvious problems with calibration but you and I know it wouldn't be possible to make accurate adjustments to calibration unless we were able to actually drive the car at the same time as making the adjustments, otherwise we'd just be making rough best guess adjustments. Besides, things like pressure and nozzle size require mechanical adjustment, it isn't possible to adjust them without getting hands on with physical tools. And we'd rather do a thorough manual job of calibration, which allow us to properly calibrate the system at all points in the engine load range including setting proper mixture in open loop mode before the customer picks the car up, rather than crossing fingers and hoping autocal manages a half decent job of calibration (which will never be anything like as good as proper calibration by a good pro).
Not much recent content on the forum I just linked to, perhaps because that forum is setup so that all posts have to be approved by one of their employees (explaining lack of negative comments, which rings a few bells regards Lexus forum too), except that employee (who is the boss of the firm) is in jail so isn't around to approve posts.

Simon.

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Last edited by LPGC on Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Talkingcars wrote:
Sorry mate - you are only no.5, closely followed by classicswede - memberlist.php?mode=&sk=d&sd=d


and if you rank by word count?

It would be nice to ask the mod if an additional advertising fee could reserve some key words. How much for "lpg pro" or "valve lube required" and then have those words automatically filtered out if they are not used in context with the fee payer.

I can see a new forum membership coming and a bit of fun on a dark evening..... my imaginary lexus is parked outside now and it really needs a LPG conversion but should I fit........

See you in hell.


Last edited by Talkingcars on Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To add missing bracket to quote.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:16 pm 
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I think I understand your post KBS, but which moderator (one on this forum, Bluesman on Lexus forum, or Profess employee on Profess forum)?

Simon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:49 pm 
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Look at the contrast between the totally biased and censored Legacy forum and the Elgrand forum that I just joined. For my first post I received 'likes' from several users and a 'trophy' (whatever that is :lol:). Here's a link to the thread on the Elgrand forum thread. I believe much of the thanks were due to my explanation of lube systems. http://forum.elgrandoc.uk/index.php?threads/lpg.4128/page-2#post-33771.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:06 pm 
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I can go one better, I've been banned for life from Rangerovers.net but am a mod on Rangerovers.pub....... Sometimes keyboard warriors with an ego have no sense of humour at all (or humor in the case of Rangerovers.net).

A friend has just bought an Elgrand and will want it converting but he's in Kent so a hell of a trek to get up to you.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:24 am 
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That seems a crazy situation Gilbert, what led to the ban?

Kent is a long way off, I have plenty customers from further afield but most of them are for more demanding installs. Of course I'd be more than happy to take on the work though!

Simon

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:08 pm 
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I've used the 'contact us' form on Lexus forum a few times but so far haven't had a reply. I wonder who handles 'contact us' at Lexus forum and if they are ignoring my contact.

LPGC's messages via 'contact us' facility on Lexus forum wrote:
14th Novemeber
Hello, I contacted you via this same form before the weekend but haven't received a reply yet.
I may be interested in advertising on your forum but I do have reservations. My business concerns LPG conversion of vehicles but forum moderator Bluesman, who (and I quote referring to LPG) 'It's not my company I just champion it', seems set on censoring any comment about LPG made by informed people other than Profess. Is this the policy of your forum?

Regards,

Simon Andrew
Lpgc

10th November
Dear sirs,

I would like to enquire about advertising my business on forum please.

I understand from moderator Bluesman's comments in PM messages to myself (I am LPGC) that paying for advertising would entitle me to protection by moderators from whatever may be perceived (by forum users) as negative comments, even if purely by implication? And that you will not allow professionals that do not pay for membership to comment at all, on pain of banning them from forum? Due to the above it would seem that if I pay to advertise the forum will be biased towards my business and Profess' business, as opposed to the current situation where the forum is biased purely for Profess' business and moderators do some of the legwork on Profess' behalf.

Look forward to your reply.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14184


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:13 pm 
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Link to a thread on a Lexus RX300 with a Prins system I sorted a calibration problem on and serviced today.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14192

The owner posted on another thread to say thanks, here's his post..
Bulldoggy wrote:
That was mine, Ran a dream all the way home no engine lights oodles of power still. Thanks, I knew my arm would get in that pic.

Thanks for sorting and being communicative about what you were doing all the time, makes a refreshing change, most want you to sit in a box whilst they mess about with your pride and joy.

Thanks once again.

Richard.


Simon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:54 pm 
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Just been on Lexus forum and a notification popped up to say Bluesman started following me on that forum today... I followed him back, partly to see who else He might fall out with and got notification He had done the same to another user.

Wouldn't seem much point in Him following me, considering he has removed all my content, prevented me from posting, prevented me from being able to read or send private messages. For all intents and purposes a ban, begging the question why he didn't just ban. :roll: For a short time He prevented me from posting directly (so my posts would require His approval), I never attempted to post under those conditions. Very soon (and before I even started this thread on this forum) He changed that so that I could not post even if He might have approved such post.

So I wonder what brought on Bluesman following me. Maybe he has only just become aware of this forum thread but I'd doubt it considering the number of references to this forum on what seems to be one of his preferred subjects (LPG) on the Lexus forum. Since He has left me unable to post on Lexus forum, I would suggest Bluesman follow what I have to say on this forum, no doubt he could learn from that. Free from His (partly self imposed?) restrictions on Lexus forum, heck, he could even have a chat with me on this forum.

I think this thread is up to around 155 reads now, reckon only a minority of those will be from people who use Lexus forum - but it might only take one Lexus forum user to make everyone there aware of this thread and PMs exchanged whenever he's suspected of bias. Perhaps he will ban anyone who points to this thread, LPGC or Lpgforum over months to come.

Simon

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:00 pm 
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I wonder what would happen if I clicked on 'Buy Gold User Membership' on Lexus Owners Club forum, which apparently allows members to sell stuff on that site.. I imagine that would put them in a slightly different impossible position - It should entitle me to at least advertise LPG bits etc and to discuss how to fit them properly. Obviously I wouldn't be able to do any of that if I was still effectively barred by Bluesman, yet I could click on 'Buy now' right now. So I would have jumped through the hurdle/excuse that Bluesman suggests and on that basis would expect the effective bar to be lifted, unless of course Bluesman doesn't want any pros except Profess on LOC.

I'll probably check if they're just ignoring my emails (and attempts to contact LOC admin by using 'contact us' form on LOC) or everyone's attempts. Easy enough to do, just send messages from a different email address and from a mate's computer and IP address. Then I'll report back!

222 reads now, that's 67 reads in the 10 days of inactivity on this thread, so if only 10% of reads are from users who saw a link to this site (or received PMs about LOC bias) on LOC, that's around 7 reads by LOC forum users (or 1 a day now this thread slowed down a bit)... so l imagine a lot of LOC users are now aware of this thread on this forum, of my LPG business and skills, and of LOC/Bluesman bias, censoring and BS. Oops I just bumped this thread, so I expect those numbers to climb a bit faster again...

Meanwhile, if you go on LOC and search for 'LPGC' you can still see part of one of my posts that Bluesman removed. I think he removed that post simply because he was shown up... because I didn't refer to my business or vehicles I'd converted etc at all.

Simon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:23 pm 
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I say do it

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:59 pm 
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LPGC wrote:
I think I understand your post KBS, but which moderator (one on this forum, Bluesman on Lexus forum, or Profess employee on Profess forum)?


Lexus forum.
LPGC wrote:
Him following me

Nice use of the capital "H".


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:18 am 
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KBS wrote:
LPGC wrote:
Him following me

Nice use of the capital "H".

Good job I'm not religious :lol:
Those dark nights are here KBS, did you start another forum membership?

Simon

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