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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:20 am 
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current set up is ultragas reducer (highest capacity) and mygas injectors which appear to be a valtek type , these have been problematic since day one , and I have one now clacking away like a good un and giving a misfire when under heavy load. They always seem to get sticky in the winter and require lots of fettling to keep the car running ok , something I want to try to avoid with the next set of injectors.

sooo do I go for hana blue 1.3 ohm or magic jets , I think magic jets will fit under the covers better , or what would the experts recommend for my set up?

range rover 4.2 s/c


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:35 am 
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anyone??


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:10 pm 
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Location: Milton Keynes
What ECU are you running them from? Ideally you want ones that your ECU supports directly.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:20 am 
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Hi Brian. Its a king aeb based ecu


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:19 pm 
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MagicJets but set use the Matrix setting in King software.

Simon

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Thanks Simon , the new fx or the older ones , which are most suited


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:55 pm 
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I've converted a lot of RR SC's and usually with the original MJ injectors so I'd go with the original design because I know exactly what to expect and could start setup with X nozzles at Y pressure with Z map, but similarly good results will be possible with the FX type too.

Would be interested to read how you went about the install - getting nozzles in the correct place on the manifold, connected pipes from nozzles to injectors, did injector break wiring, fuel return, etc...

Without re-reading the thread I think you said you had Valtek injectors fitted before? T30's or T34's? T30's unlikely to give good results, T34's could work but I wouldn't recommend.

Simon

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:49 pm 
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hi Simon

the install was done by someone else , but I suspect done on the cheap.

As one of the injectors has deteriorated and most have been problematic since installation I have decided to install new injectors myself.

I have recalibrated and tuned the system myself as my confidence in the installer broke down and I found myself forever visiting to get issues sorted to no avail - CEL continuously coming in for rich lean ad infinitum . managed to sort it out to give reasonable performance myself after buying the appropriate lead and downloading the software .

The car does have a fuel return line fitted , re where the nozzles are in the manifold I know he did not remove the manifolds to drill the position for the gas supplies.

the current injectors are mygas and look exactly like a valtek t30

hth


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:20 am 
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Valtek 30 nozzles usually have 4mm OD nozzles, so manifold nozzles would also be 4mm, but other injectors mentioned use 6mm OD nozzles so usually need 6mm manifold nozzles.

The correct location for manifold nozzles on these engines is in a tight spot with just enough clearance to use 5mm pipe (tight fit of pipe on nozzles) to run between rocker covers and manifold. If the installer didn't fit 4mm nozzles centrally between rocker cover and manifold (not quite as much need using the smaller diameter nozzles), then it might make it difficult to use 6mm nozzles and/or run 5mm pipe from manifold nozzles between rocker covers and manifold...

What reducer is fitted?

Simon

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Last edited by LPGC on Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:47 pm 
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a


Last edited by hitman on Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:50 pm 
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http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b52 ... bef40b.jpg

I found a picture of the same injectors on this site which are the same as the ones fitted to my set up BUT mine have a different coloured coil on (mine are brown not blue)

the reducer is an ultragas

I can't take a pic as away at work for another couple of weeks and cannot access the car

hth

I think the nozzles may be 5 or 6 mm , don't look 4mm to me

when ordering the magic jets which size nozzle should I go for to start with? my reducer is currently set to 1.4 bar if that helps

I also assume I'd just drill out until happy and either increase / decrease regulator for final adjustment?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:19 pm 
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I would go with Magic jets. The AEB ECU can struggle driving lower resistance injectors.

I would start with a 2.5mm nozzle and adjust from there

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:22 am 
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Thanks swede , injectors ordered , will sort it out in a couple of weeks


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:38 pm 
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Then if in-experienced the fun begins mapping it properly ;-)

Simon

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:49 pm 
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The funs started already ordered 8 injectors from poland and only one has been delivered - covered by paypal if they don't send the other 7 so whats the point of only sending me one?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:50 pm 
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Good luck with sorting that out. FYI I had similar eBay issues with something else. Don't raise it as item not received as the morons at eBay will not agree as you have a tracking number. It needs to be raised as item significantly not as described.

TBH you'd be better using lpgshop or tinley. Either are a lot easier to deal with and a lot less likely to screw it up.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:02 pm 
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'Lost in translation' can be equally as relevant in terms of parts mate.. some firms can be an eye opener when used to decent service.
Brian_H wrote:
TBH you'd be better using lpgshop or tinley. Either are a lot easier to deal with and a lot less likely to screw it up.
Definitely agreed very good suppliers.

But I might add to that and say - Once parts are fitted, if the install is going to be a bit more techy/fussy than most to set up properly it can be better to buy (if not parts, then maybe services) from such as myself who expects to give that level of tech support... I include calibration (done here by myself) with kits / parts I sell, or can be done over the phone, though wouldn't recommend the phone method in case of a RRSC. Common scenario with RRSC's - DIYer fits new parts (injectors etc) and achieves what seems to be good calibration, except on subsequent days the MIL light comes on, bank1/2 fuel trim errors, and/or it comes on sooner during certain driving conditions. Everyone with a bit of knowledge seems to expect to be a very quick learner, no problem calibrating the LPG system on a fussy engine for them and just as well because it might otherwise take an experienced person's hands on to sort any problems and suppliers don't generally include much hands on with bits they sell.

Funny bit - What was one of the least reliable suppliers in the UK is still around and though their website says they have parts in stock they don't seem to have most of that stock. Same firm doesn't seem to have anyone left on staff with technical knowledge other than the boss who's never around. If we ask to speak to what was their most recent decent tech guy - which always was a good idea if you wanted to ensure they actually had stuff they were selling you in stock and furthermore would actually be sending you what you'd ordered - as opposed to another staff member telling you stuff was in stock when actually they hadn't bought or brought stock from Poland yet and furthermore would likely send you wrong parts anyway - seems they've taken to denying that the tech guy you want to speak to has also left to join another firm! In a recent chat they reckoned he still works there but doesn't speak English, which is funny because he always spoke decent English when we've spoken in the past. No confusion over tech guy, I asked for him by name :lol:

Simon

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:59 pm 
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auto perfekt is the supplier - give them until wednesday to reply/send the other 7 , if no joy onto someone else for the rest of the injectors

If I don't manage to map it myself I'll drop it into you and have the day out in yorkshire Simon


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:35 pm 
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well the other 7 injectors arrived at lunchtime , all fitted and mapped , must say the car is performing MUCH better that it ever did on the last injectors that were fitted . had to cut one of the injector outlet pipes down due to a leak at the end of the hose , its about 40mm shorter than the others and the tip of the injector is just clamped by the clip - doesn't seem to be having any detrimental affect yet , but what diameter should I order for outlet size of the magic jet injectors , its either 5 or 6mm - whats best to get?

I've included some screen shots of the current set up for comment/criticism , it appears to be working ok so far but time will tell.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:24 pm 
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MJ outlets are 6mm and normally we'd use 6mm ID pipe, but, without re-reading the thread I think I mentioned previously that 6mm ID pipe usually has too wide an OD to run between cam covers and manifold on an RRSC (presuming manifold spuds are in the correct location).. Anyway, I usually use 5mm ID pipe on RRSC's.

Dai only suggested to start with 2.5 nozzles, easy enough to drill nozzles bigger but not to make nozzles smaller... Given the pinj ginj figures at idle and the fact your (KME Gold?) reducer will already be cranked up to max pressure, although the 2.5 nozzles do stand a chance of flowing enough gas at combinations of high load and high rpm without running out of duration window, it is likely it would run out of duration window.. Screenshot shows ginj of 4ms at idle, with some injectors much of that 4ms would be the injector opening time but MJ injectors open faster than most so more of that 4ms is with injector actually flowing gas. Say out of the 4ms another injector would be flowing gas for 2ms and MJ's would be flowing gas for 3ms, can see how the different injectors would need a different shape map (slower injectors need more of a difference in multiplier between low and high low pinj's) and different pulse length to flow the same gas at high loads. Running out of window would only be of much consequence at high rpm while at or near flat out, the consequence would be needing to add petrol addition - but might have to do that anyway, depends on how ideally the reducer is plumbed in and on your specific reducer as some seem to flow more than others.

Side point but while on the subject of KME Golds... they incorporate an over pressure relief valve that is relative to (and bleeds to) the vacuum connection. On a turbo/supercharged vehicle, if combination of boost and reducer pressure setting is high enough, on sudden lift-off this valve can momentarily bleed (high pressure vapour down the vac line).. not a big problem in itself but this valve is a weak point in the reducer and can fail so it bleeds constantly. Seen this problem on quite a few Golds but not on a normally aspirated or low pressure turbo, or with lower reducer pressure.

You definitely haven't finished calibrating yet, just looked at a map of mine for an RRSC with MJs at 1.3 bar (so prob 3mm nozzles), a bit of a range of numbers in mine but the numbers change gradually, peaking at 3ms. To calibrate you should disable adaptivity and (not quite the same point) it's best to disconnect the OBD connection and use an OBD live data scanner to calibrate using fuel trims. Possible to use the LPG ECU's trim reading feature but a separate scanner is better because the LPG's trim sample rate is much slower.. but while LPG ECU is connected to OBD it may slow the sample rate of the scanner, or only one of them may connect.

Get rid of the petrol addition setting (in fact should never be set like that with 20ms activation and 20ms addition). At least during calibration, turn off sequential changeover, set rpm changeover to 400, set changeover delay to 0.. So you control when it switches fuels and does so immediately.. easier to do comparisons (trims / lambda / seat of the pants, etc).

Simon

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Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


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