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 Post subject: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 456
Hi all,
The wife had a problem with the lpg on her V6 2.7 hyundai coupe a few days ago which is now stopping it
switching over to gas.


It started 3 days ago, started cold engine and about 3 miles down the road it switches over to gas as normal, 10 minutes later it switches back to petrol and won't start back to lpg. The lpg switch was doing the same as it does then it runs out of lpg.
At lunch time it starts switches to gas and is fine. Next day about 10 minutes into her journey it was switching back to petrol then back to gas for about 10 minutes then stayed on gas.

So today I connected up the laptop and it's running on gas fine with no error messages stored. So I shut down laptop and move the car and it started to switch back and forth to petrol. So I disconnect to small tube from the pressure sensor and then switch to lpg and there's no gas. I then check the front solenoid and it clicks then trying to swith over.
I then disconnect the fed into front solenoid and again no gas. I then check rear solenoid and there's no click, I checked power supply which is fine, I also changed (had a spare one) the solenoid coil and still no click.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
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Location: Yorkshire
Good solenoid coil + good solenoid coil power and earth feed + no click = stuck solenoid plunger.

After switching back to petrol automatically (like it does when run out of gas) it doesn't then switch back to gas without the missus' intervention does it? If so, this could mean a more complicated problem.

Has your missus mentioned this on forum today - Similar thread from someone with a screen-name implying missus!

Simon

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 Post subject: Re: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
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Hi Simon,
Last night then It started to play up it was - starting on petrol then trying to switch over but couldn't and then would retry 2/3 times then switch itself off.
The system on this car is the type that opens both solenoids then the red light flashes faster (the low level gas warning) and then switches over 5 sec later.

So it can't be a stick solenoid plunger, can this be removed and cleaned?
Will removing the plunper cause gas loss as she filled up with gas on the way home yesterday?

She does say a few times in the last weeks that the rear solenoid made a funny noise then switch over.

And no over thread started by her, only me and S type.

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
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Here's some pictures of the solenoid-

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:06 pm 
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Emer tank valve - Move that yellow level down (clockwise about 90degrees), this should prevent gas escaping from the tank when you remove the plunger.

Note - Standing gas in the pipe feed to engine may still escape... If the engine used all the gas in the pipe then no gas will escape, but if the problem is really with the reducer solenoid the small amount of gas in the pipe will escape.

in the pic it looks like either the solenoid coil is scratched or cracked. If cracked would bet the coil is broken. Have you disconnected the coil and checked electrical resistance across it?

Simon

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 Post subject: Re: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
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LPGC wrote:
Emer tank valve - Move that yellow level down (clockwise about 90degrees), this should prevent gas escaping from the tank when you remove the plunger.

Note - Standing gas in the pipe feed to engine may still escape... If the engine used all the gas in the pipe then no gas will escape, but if the problem is really with the reducer solenoid the small amount of gas in the pipe will escape.

in the pic it looks like either the solenoid coil is scratched or cracked. If cracked would bet the coil is broken. Have you disconnected the coil and checked electrical resistance across it?

Simon


Hi Simon,

The wife has done 250 miles today and this solenoid (I hope) is not playing ball, she's not happy having to fill up with petrol!

I have no gas in the fed pipe to the front as I removed the pipe from front solenoid last night to check if their was any pressure.

I have checked power to the coil and it's fine and the coil you see in the picture I think is new and was just fitted before the picture was taken. So it must be a scratch.

Do you think I need a need plunger?

Thanks.

PS How's your work load next week as I may have a spare day to bring Jag up to you (will know for sure tomorrow)?

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 Post subject: Re: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
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I believe you already checked power and earth are good to the coil.

Now you've had the front solenoid to bits (and no gas came out) we can assume the rear solenoid is broken due to either the coil or stuck plunger.

Did you check coil resistance as said above? That's the first step. If coil shows around 13ohms it should be OK, if not then it is likely broken. If coil is broken you obviously need a new coil.

Assuming coil is OK (you said it's new), pull that yellow lever down (said above) before undoing the solenoid post (usually 15mm on Emer). Careful as you undo, you don't want to damage the O ring or have the plunger and spring/pressure pin fly out. If the plunger moves freely inside the post then it's unlikely to be the problem - though I recently had one on an 'upside down' valve that arrived here stuck when new.

Given you undid the gas pipe at the front and no gas came out it looks very likely the problem is the rear solenoid.. This is the best case scenario really, as otherwise you'd have a gas leak somewhere!

There is an unsafe 'cheat' method of seeing if the problem is the rear solenoid - Leave the plunger out when you refit the post and untick 'enable diagnostics' in software. Don't forget to left the yellow lever to turn the gas on again. If gas still does not come out of the tank after removing the plunger and turning gas back on then either the tank is empty or the valve is broke (maybe broken excess flow valve). I would be very surprised if no gas comes out the tank after the cheat though! Don't leave the cheat in place, it is cheating essential safety stuff, only to be done during diagnostics.

Edit - Workload next week... Will definitely be able to see you, even if the Merc CL65AMG (6.3 V12 twin turbo) comes in for conversion - I already converted same customer's CL55AMG and CLS55 V8's (one with supercharger) I kid you not... He and his wife like their powerful Mercs!

Simon

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 Post subject: Re: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
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Found the problem-

Image

There was still 12v at the coil but would not work coil!

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 Post subject: Re: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
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That'll do it! You didn't check the earth earlier then? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Lack of pressure!
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
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LPGC wrote:
That'll do it! You didn't check the earth earlier then? :lol:


Yes I checked both earth and live and I had 12 volts, the break had just one small bit of wire holding it together which was enough for the reading of 12v but not for powering coil.

I thing is I didn't notice this until I had removed the plunger and bench tested 3 coils with the plunger!

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