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 Post subject: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:06 pm 
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I have recently bought a 2001 focus bifuel. I am having problems with it stalling when switched to gas.

It had an mot 2 weeks ago by previous owner and it was tested on gas. Most of the time if I choose gas then start the car, as soon as the gas switches in it stalls. 1 in 20 times it will idle fine and can be driven although then will stall a little later.

Car has been serviced recently and I have pulled the spark plugs and gapped them accordingly.

I spoke to my local lpg guy who was fairly dismissive and said it was the pump and just run it on petrol.

Is this likely to be the pump? Is there any definitive test I can do for it? If it is the pump can it be repaired?


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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:22 pm 
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Any idea which system is actually fitted? Pictures of the switch may help in this, or look under the bonnet and see if you can identify any bits of the system (ideally your looking for the ecu, but it may be buried somewhere not very obvious - mine is in the drivers footwell area)

I'd think its more likely a Necam/Koltec system of some description than the type with the pump in the tank (some Fords exist like that, but AFAIK they are usually found in the van conversions of that age if at all). If it is a necam theres a few things that can be tried, but rather than confusing things further try and identify the system first

Did your local guy actually look at it or have you only spoken to him?


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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:33 pm 
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It's an ICOM system - that is what is written on tank in the wheel well.

I just spoke to the guy (didn't have the car with me at the time).


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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:14 pm 
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Icom is a brand of tank the rest of the system will be made by someone else. See if you can find a vaporiser/reducer up front - if your new to LPG your looking for something like the one in this link.

http://www.maxperience.com/en/koltec-necam/detail/answer/162241/i-need-help-for-koltec-vg392-lpg-system

If you can only access the tank easily then the switch may tell you - if you can take photos of both that may be enough to start on. you will need to put them somewhere else and link them though, the top post of this forum explains how to do this.


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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:20 pm 
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Had a quick look and can't see anything like that. It has got injectors mounted on top with a Tickford assembly sticker on it. I assume the vaporiser is tucked at the back of the engine.

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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:55 pm 
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Actually to me that does look like the liquid injection system (it certainly doesn't look like the more common type gas injection system, so you may not have a vapouriser in that case). It certainly isn't the EGI type, and doesn't look like the gsi type from your photos either, so suspect its something else.

I don't know a lot about these, but there has been posts on here in the past suggesting the pump is available, can you see anything on there saying Vialle?

Also if it is the liquid injection type can you post a photo of what you can get to on the tank?


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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:59 am 
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Some pictures of the tank

ImageImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:12 am 
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It is the liquid injection system, the pump inside the tank is the giveaway. If it is the pump it will cost you upwards of £150 in the UK (there was a guy doing them for £100 on eBay a while ago) but Kardo in Poland do the same pump for just over £30 (see http://www.cardo-parts.pl/index.php?p19,erj173-lpg). I know a few people have successfully bought them from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:17 am 
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Is there any way to test the pump? How hard are they to fit? Is it DIYable?

There is one on eBay for £90 at moment. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Walbro-ERJ197-Fuel-Pump-Ford-Focus-1-8-LPG-Liquid-Propane-Gas-replaces-ERJ173-/181239869836


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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:28 am 
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Caution: this is not the Vialle system previously discussed on the forum. It is a similar system developed by 'Metatron', using Icom tanks. Icom later took over and badged the whole system package.

I doubt the pump is the same as the Vialle version.
For a relatively minor fault on an elderly system, the pump is not the only possible cause. Could be sticking tank solenoid valve, for example. Pumps are always favourite, because they certainly do go wrong - usually seizure. You wouldn't really expect that to manifest only on warm starts, but it might.

Diagnostics are limited and unlikely to reveal much about the source of the problem. Which is a way of saying it'll come down to stabs in the dark.

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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:27 am 
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I forgot to update this.

Took it to CRD in Bolton who diagnosed a faulty pump. They took pics to show all the digital readings and to prove they had carried it out.

This led to a replacement pump which has cured the problem.

The other issue they diagnosed was an issue with the fuel sensor. The focus uses the fuel gauge to switch the pump off and on. It wouldn't go down to red so therefore it wasn't switching the pump off and hence we think that was why the pump had died.

Everything has been great until yesterday when the gauge dropped to red even though it has a full tank. Which in turn means that the fuel pump won't switch on!

I am going to have to run it on petrol until after Christmas when I get some more cash to get the sender looked at.


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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:22 pm 
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Agreed with Rosko.

The moog wrote:
diagnosed a faulty pump. They took pics to show all the digital readings and to prove they had carried it out.

This led to a replacement pump which has cured the problem.

The other issue they diagnosed was an issue with the fuel sensor. The focus uses the fuel gauge to switch the pump off and on. It wouldn't go down to red so therefore it wasn't switching the pump off and hence we think that was why the pump had died.


Kryten might say 'Ahh cynical mode! I didn't know they switched back to petrol on low fuel gauge/tank level, I thought they had a fuel pressure switch in the fuel line to injectors (like vapour systems, too low a pressure causing a switch back to petrol). The pump wouldn't work if there was no power feed or earth to it, sender/gauge would likely show empty tank with no earth, might expect the pump and gauge to use the same earth.. '

Would be interesting to see pics of digital readings and to compare old and new pumps in pics of them being swapped.

Maybe disconnect the wires from level sender and put a 10ohm resistor across them for the time being... If that gets fuel gauge showing full you'd then expect the pump to work again and save money on fuel until you get the level sender sorted after Xmas?

Simon

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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:47 am 
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Hi, I thought I recognised the desperation. I now have this vehicle and the fuel gauge / not switching to LPG issue returned so got a copy of the Ford Focus wiring (800+pages) and have soldered in a 150 ohm pot on the sender wire to simulate a half full tank. It now switches automatically to LPG after starting on petrol, I fill up LPG every 200 miles so don't need the gauge. The last owner also had a new pump put in the tank. Thee is still a problem with is stalling at iust over tickover on LPG but not on petrol, anyone got any suggestion or where I might find some Ford Focus BiFuel information? Also it predates OBD2 but has an OBD2 style connector under the steering column, so what sort of "OBD" reader would this need?


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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:32 pm 
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Any generic code reader should work. OBD2 became mandatory in the US from 1996 and in the EU from 2001, cars earlier than that often had the socket and limited OBD connectivity, some things work, others don't. My 98 Range Rover shouldn't be compliant as it is too early, yet a code reader works on most things with just the odd thing (Mass Air flow being one of them) giving strange readings.

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'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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 Post subject: Re: Focus bi fuel issue
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:22 pm 
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The 2000 focus I've got works fine with Torque and a bluetooth dongle, you just need to ensure the right protocol is available on your adapter if your using a bluetooth one. I think its SAE J1850 PWM from memory. Most Fords from about 1996 onwards are fairly compatible with obd readers if you have the socket. I've got a couple of adaptors that work - one that does is the HHOBD one which i generally keep in the car anyway.

Alternatively you can use a dedicated code reader, but be aware that some of the cheapest ones won't show the sensor data, only codes. Torque will show me exhaust sensor readings/MAF readings on mine with no issue.

Theres some info on the ford TIS disc about the lpg side, but its very vague and not especially helpful, I think it points towards the liquid systems more than the vapour ones as it references a filter above the exhaust backbox which I definitely don't have on the Mondeo which does have a factory fit Necam system. If you've already got the disc have a look, but its not really worth getting it for whats there from what I remember.


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