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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:59 pm 
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I'll see if I can get the rear up on some ramps to take a closer look. May end up changing filler for UK. Can I get a discrete filler or does it. We'd to be one of the bulky ones?

I do want to get it looked over, was hoping someone on this forum is local ish to me?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:13 pm 
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The design of the bayonet filler means it will end up being deeper than what you have currently. It would be an idea to see how much space you have behind the bumper where the existing one is to see if you can put it there. There should be a metal bracket of some description behind your existing one, if the replacement is to be mounted in there you will need to either alter or replace it as well (the bracket ensures the fill point is held adequately in the event of it still being attached to the pump when you go to leave the filling station, so that the hose separates as intended).

There aren't that many installers on here now - out of those who are around none are particularly close.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:37 pm 
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Yes the design makes perfect sense. I'm not planning on filling the tank until it is checked over, I'll be fine with petrol for now.

I have been asking on an owners club if someone has tech 2 diagnostics gear as the car with a spanner light is on and need to identify if it on because of the whatever they did for lpg conversion. It's behaving like it in limp mode


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:02 pm 
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Could be for a number of reasons. Getting a code read done would be a start. If you don't get any luck there obd readers can be brought fairly cheaply. Though the very cheapest aren't very helpful. The torque app and a suitable Bluetooth adapter works quite well.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:13 pm 
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I've got a opcom but been warned against using it as clones can do some damage and I'm not sure it works on my 2006 zafira


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:01 am 
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My Chinese Opcom clone works fine on a 2005 Zafira belonging to a guy at work so it should be fine on yours. Isn't the spanner light the one that says you are overdue for a service rather than the engine management light? If the LPG system is wildly out of calibration it can cause the EML to come on when running on LPG but it should clear after a while of running on petrol.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:13 am 
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That's what I thought but..

http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/vauxhall ... ights.html


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:15 am 
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My opcom works on my 2001 Astra G but wouldn't work on our old 2009 zafira. Not even sure what firmware the clone is running otherwise I'd look up supported vehicles :(


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:21 am 
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rossko wrote:
LPGC wrote:
The database doesn't show which trade body member registered the vehicle

Yes it does. You can't see that because you are not an approved installer, but you have been told before. Registration checks by the end user says in plain English "this vehicle has been (converted/inspected as appropriate) by a UKLPG approved installer". Go away and check that for yourself. If it wasn't in fact done by an approved installer, then that is a fraudulent entry. Bluster as much as you like, it is that simple. Insurers will not look kindly on fraud. I'm sure you'd explain all that to your potential customers clearly.


Taking what I wrote in full...
Gilbertd wrote:
As far as I'm aware, neither Tubbs or Simon are UKLPG registered so, although they are perfectly well qualified to do an inspection, would need to get the install entered on the database by a registered member.

LPGC wrote:
Thanks for the thumbs up mate, you're also aware that both Tubbs and I do offer UKLPG checks and registration. Up to us if we use unusual methods to achieve registrations, such as subbing work out eh! The database doesn't show which trade body member registered the vehicle and even if it did there would be no way of knowing if the vehicle ever went to those that registered it on the database.
Regards adaptors, turning the situation around... do UKLPG have a problem with UK owners using adaptors when abroad? The BS standard doesn't have a problem either way.


The database doesn't tell customers or insurers who registered the vehicle on UKLPG's database. The 'unusual method' I suggested above (unusual in the sense the customer would present the vehicle to one installer but another installers name would appear if registration info was checked) was subbing work out.. subbing work out is not fraudulent.

If it actually was fraudulent (say done over the phone), how could it be proven that installer A didn't, say, put a customer vehicle on the back of a trailer and take it to installer B for inspection? You might argue that in attempt to avoid paying a large claim an insurer might ask the trade body which of their members registered the vehicle on the database and then try to prove the registration was entered fraudulently. A couple of phrases spring to mind... 'very difficult to prove a negative' and 'you don't drop yourself or those scratching your back in the @!##'.

Let's not pretend police would be involved in any kind of investigation to find whether an installer actually checked a vehicle before registering it on some private database, UKLPG checks are not a legal requirement, this is not a regulated industry (though there is a BS Standard which is not UKLPGs standard), UKLPG are not the Gas-safe of this industry, they are a private trade body who invented their own database which only a minority of insurers pay any attention to. Police are not concerned with UKLPG registration status, they wouldn't be much concerned with an insurers suspicions on such, the onus would be on the insurer to prove fraud - and they would find that very difficult. Even if police were involved and used the full extent of their powers, perhaps checking CCTV etc, nothing would be proven even if a database registration was done over the phone.

Like I've said before, the phone scenario being so common makes UKLPG registration a farce. I explain the true situation very clearly to all customers (most of my customers come to me due to reputation and couldn't care less about a UKLPG database entry anyway, but for those that want UKLPG database registration I can accomplish that no problem).

I have explained all the above to Mike Chapman in person (for the benefit of others - the boss of UKLPG) who agreed with me they can't prevent or prove fraudulent entries and that I am every bit as good at checking vehicles as any UKLPG member (and Gilbert was saying much the same above). It is mostly UKLPG members who don't explain the facts clearly, hyping UKLPG and their membership as placing them in some sort of authoritative / one-upmanship position over none members when actually all they have done is paid some money and had one of their LPG conversions checked by somebody (from UKLPG) who themselves is in a dubious position regards rating others work - unless you think Mike is better at judging LPG installs than you are?

As might be expected, those of us who are not members of UKLPG but can nevertheless provide the same UKLPG database registration are much more likely to tell customers the full truth than UKLPG members. Blustering indeed, we know who blusters.

Rich_n_stace wrote:
It's insured now, went into mods section on comparethemarket and it filtered out a few companies so selected axa
Well fancy that, all insured and no UKLPG check or database entry Rosko would you believe? :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:40 pm 
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LPGC wrote:
The 'unusual method' I suggested above (unusual in the sense the customer would present the vehicle to one installer but another installers name would appear if registration info was checked) was subbing work out.. subbing work out is not fraudulent.

Arranging for falsified records that claim person X looked at it but hasn't, and money changing hands - this is fraud.
Physically sending a job off to another business is subbing work out. Which do you offer?

LPGC wrote:
If it actually was fraudulent (say done over the phone), how could it be proven ...

Does that matter? (Why would you expect anyone to tell you anyway?) Are you saying it is okay to commit fraud if you think you won't be found out? Or is it that you don't care, that's the customers problem?

LPGC wrote:
Let's not pretend police would be involved in any kind of investigation to find whether an installer actually checked a vehicle before registering it on some private database

No? Let's say our OP's tank is actually rattling around in the spare wheel carrier, it falls out on the motorway and kills the occupants of a following car. Do you seriously think no-one (insurers, cops, DVSA) will look closely at things?

LPGC wrote:
I explain the true situation very clearly to all customers

You didn't explain here whether you would be providing a falsified record, or getting someone else to do the actual work, to this potential sale. It has to be one or the other.

LPGC wrote:
Well fancy that, all insured and no UKLPG check or database entry Rosko would you believe?

That's right, he followed my advice to shop around, and not yours to give you some money.

Fantastic point-score opportunity for you Simon.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:57 pm 
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@Gilbertd OPCOM worked fine, also did the pedal test with same fault codes given. :) It appears the thermostat is stuck open (P0597) and intake camshaft phasing mechanics range/performance bank 0 (p0011)

I'm hoping a new thermostat housing will sort the temp problems out. It runs hot all the time, even smells bad.

Not sure about the intake camshaft error code ?

It also lacks in power as if in limp home mode

Steering has become a little vague, tie rod, ball joints?

With these problems and the cost of getting someone to look at the lpg setup it's getting me extremely stressed out ! That's without the added friction between you guys on here,

Just want to get my f**kin car sorted lol


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:51 pm 
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Ignore the friction between Rossko and Simon its been going on a while as you will see if you look elsewhere in the forum, it isn't anything you've spurred on. Their technical knowledge is worth listening to though!

The camshaft error suggests the ecu is detecting a mismatch between the camshaft and crankshaft sensors - could be the timing belt/chain isn't correctly timed against each other although its not unknown of for some vauxhalls to have issues with mixing up cam and crank sensor errors as well, not sure if this affects the Zafira but others here probably will confirm or rule out.

If the engine isn't timed correctly this may well explain why you say it isn't as nippy/seems stuck in limp mode/etc as it should be?

On the thermostat side of things are you sure theres actually one installed? Unfortunately some people seem to think the solution to issues with them is to remove them rather than replace it.

Once you get it running on petrol without the errors your in a reasonable position to try the lpg out, providing your happy the tank is secure of course.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:01 pm 
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Thermostat stuck open would cause it to run cold rather than hot. I know little about modern Vauxhall engines other than my missus has a 1.4 16 valve thing in her '95 Tigra and it is a pain to work on without fingers 12 inches long with a grip like Mole grips so can't comment on the cam sensor problem. Although, if the cam timing is out by one tooth on the belt, that would make it run a bit flat so suggesting that it is in limp home mode and could also explain the hot running.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:10 pm 
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I've read a few of their posts and I totally agree, they just need to bang their heads together to sort out whatever issues they have with each other or agree to disagree

I am a bit worried that the car is running hot even without the thermostat preset or closed. It could well be missing but I dread to think how it would be if it were closed. I've had a couple of cars boil over before and it's a similar smell to when that happens but obviously not boiling over if that makes sense?

I'm not sure what to with regard the sensor problem that's even more worrying, the possibility the timing could be out, maybe slipped a tooth? It's certainly not a job if like to do myself.

I'm pretty sure the lpg tank isn't going to go far, it's empty and I've tried tesiting for movement and it's firm but I will have the system inspected. Would have been done this week but I think I'm going to end up with a massive bill for the other issues


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:25 am 
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Don't know if yours is a chain or belt engine without looking. There's little point trying to take to an installer until you get the petrol performance sorted out. Would suggest best bet is tackle the cam error first.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:27 am 
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Also if the thermostat isn't working it may be getting hot but not hot enough to switch the fan on.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:55 am 
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It's worth noting that if you decide to replace the cam angle sensor (not an uncommon failure on these engines), use a genuine Vauxhall one. I spent months mucking about constantly getting limp home mode and MIL lights until as a last resort I ditched the non-genuine sensor I'd fitted and splashed out on one from Vauxhall. Problem solved straight away and hasn't come back.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:25 am 
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P0597 is not thermostat stuck open, but thermostat heater open-circuit. The thermostat proper would still work normally, the heater is just about improving warmup events. The fault code could be caused by plug off or poor connection, rather than component failure.

Hot-water smells with no obvious source are often a sign of weeping radiator. But here, we also know that the plumbing has been cut and changed (as part of LPG conversion), it is worth having a good look round the new kit and hoses for seeps of telltale antifreeze discolouring. That's not as easy as it sounds, torch and handbag mirrors etc. help.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:34 am 
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It's pretty compacted together it's a job to follow what's going on in the engine bay. This is a vid of a quick look around. I couldn't see any signs of water anywhere


http://s36.photobucket.com/user/richnst ... c.mp4.html


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:43 am 
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rich r wrote:
It's worth noting that if you decide to replace the cam angle sensor (not an uncommon failure on these engines), use a genuine Vauxhall one. I spent months mucking about constantly getting limp home mode and MIL lights until as a last resort I ditched the non-genuine sensor I'd fitted and splashed out on one from Vauxhall. Problem solved straight away and hasn't come back.



I'm guessing the angle sensor is under cam cover? Is it easy enough to change?


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