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 Post subject: Re: OMVL Strange problem
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:38 am 
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LPGC wrote:
A strange problem if, only when the interface/laptop are connected, you're getting problems running on petrol.

did some more testing last night went on freeway did several wot's on petrol and logged them with the wideband and mixtures were solid, i then repated the process with the laptop conected to the romano and on petrol consistant wideband readings on petrol, even though it was still flicking to the 2ms row, on gas low reg pressure was an issue at medium to high loads so couldn't test

Do you run your laptop and data logger from the vehicle battery, either directly or via an invertor?

laptop just runs off the laptop battery, and the wideband runs off the cig lighter, the datalogger is a feature of the wideband

You were getting 5Volts on the red map sensor wire - was that with the laptop/interface connected or without? The serial link can affect the voltage here.

re tested red map sensor wire and had 5.01v regardless of weather the laptop was conected or not

Did you try adjusting the extra injection filter (an above post)?

I tried playing with that but no change, i also noticed on the romano it has the anticipate injection sequence so tried that but no change

I think in the end your reducer pressure will at least be related. Other things I might try (on different attempts). 1. Put the same numbers that you have in your map in the 18ms row in the 2ms row from 4000rpm upwards. 2. For testing purposes only - lean off the map at 16 and 18ms duration, not to zero but to somewhere around 60% or 70% of the values already in those rows. If the engine still runs with that mixture (would expect it to be very lean in which case you shouldn't leave it like that) this will take some load off the reducer and injector duty cycle, might prevent the drop back to 2ms.

agreed reducer is defiatly a problem, i did try the different figures as you mentioned above in the map with no change, the engine was lean in the top end, reducer pressure is dropping quite low even with just medium throttle

In both the OMVL and Romano setup, what working pressure did you set? You might try setting working pressure to 0.9bar or SP and doing anogther full recal. Any pics of your maps and settings for both ECUs?

I haven't tried that yet, i feel i really need to sort out this reducer. I was gunna pull it apart but think it maybe time to just get a new one, i have noticed when the engine is first started cold in the morning and it opens the tank lockoff when it is getting ready to swtich to gas the reducer makes a rapid clicking noise for a few seconds? not sure if that has something to do with it though it has allways done it as far as i can remember. Should i stick with the omvl reducer? or do you know of a better unit that you would recomend

Simon


what i did notice today was when accelerating at medium loads from say 1000rpm etc i was getting the map page ball dropping to the 2ms row again! i tried various throttle applying techniques and it was difficult to replicate exactly what did it but i found more sudden movements of the throttle seemed to play a part. I feel i need to sort out the reducer next?


current romano map, i pretty much just punched in the same readings i had on the omvl map, though i have just realised the 2ms row on the omvl is all 135,

Image

medium accel log you can see the glitchy ms with the red scribble next to it

Image

Image

thanks

cheers

Lance


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 Post subject: Re: OMVL Strange problem
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:55 am 
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Location: Yorkshire
We're all agreed there is a problem with reducer pressure. Has the reducer ever been changed? Some of the more recent Dream reducers won't flow anywhere near as much gas as the old Dream reducers. On top of your reducer there would have been a silver sticker with writing saying SP, MP or HP, can you see what yours says? SP reducers might be 0.9 bar standard but can be increased to maybe 1.2bar, MP should be 1.2 bar but can be increased between 1.3 and 1,5bar, Hp should be 1.7 bar but can sometimes be increased a bit higher.

What injectors do you have? What injectors are selected in software? The figures in your map aren't what I'd expect to see - With OMVL injectors and an engine that idles around 3ms petrol injector duration the numbers in the map usually peak around 4ms and get lower towards the bottom of the screen / with Matrix injectors would expect the peak to be a little higher and the numbers still to drop towards the bottom of the screen but not as much as with OMVL injectors.

Things you could try before replacing the reducer... Swap the OMVL ECU back in. Since pressure is too low, screw the brass pressure adjuster all the way in. Note all software settings, reset the ECU, re-enter software settings (except change working pressure to MP or 1.2bar for first attempt here and don't change any numbers in the new/default map). Make sure you're getting good lambda flick at idle on petrol, run-autocal, check lambda flick at idle on gas, compare Pinj running on petrol to Pinj running on gas, show us another pic of your map...

Simon

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 Post subject: Re: OMVL Strange problem
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:42 am 
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hey mate,

my reducer is an omvl dream HP, i put a seal kit through it a year ago when i first fitted this system to my car, i brought the system 2nd hand though it came off the same type of car. I have the black reg fast omvl injectors, and in the romano software i have 1.7 bar and in the omvl software i had Hp, fast reg injectors selected in omvl software and fast romanos in romano software. my numbers probably look strange as i didn't do an autocalibration. I left the same map that was off the original car in the system, then got my dad to drive the car at various engine loads/rpm and i tweaked the values so i got my desired a/f ratio out the exhaust :) the main reason i did that is my car naturally runs on the richer side of things at Wot/open loop on petrol so by doing the above i could tweak it for nice mixtures at wot on lpg (13-14:1 on lpg scale 15.5:1 = 1 lambda)

i have found a brand new omvl reducer dream hp that claims 360hp original with lock off etc for $199 delivered, though will probably take 2-3 weeks to get here. So im keen to get it so it can be on its way lol

at the moment closed loop mixtures are spot on bounces between say 15.2-15.6

i can try winding the pressure up a bit more but then at idle etc won't the pressure be way high, cause at the moment it is at 1.89 or so, and on over run etc it goes up to 2.4. Even at moderate acceleration pressure is dropping to 1.2 ish, so there has to be a fair issue with the reducer, it almost seems the pressure or lack of is getting worse

thanks

cheers

Lance


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 Post subject: Re: OMVL Strange problem
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
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Lance,

Didn't realise you were getting 1.7 bar with no load mate, since you're getting that pressure at idle it is unlikely that screwing in the pressure adjuster will give adequate pressure under load - Seems even more like a reducer or gas feed issue to me now...

You know how to map the system properly - so you might as well disregard my comments on resetting the ECU and running autocal - was just a simple to describe way of getting back to something like a normal shaped map with a half decent map. Your map still looks unusual but you've confirmed it is correct for your engine.

Hope the new reducer sorts your problems - As said OMVL reducers have never been very pressure stable, the old units had that issue but still flowed better than most bundled (with boxed kits) reducers, the new units don't flow as well as the old ones but should be OK on your 4litre, at least better than your existing one if it is faulty.

If you have no joy with the new reducer - (and you did check filters and tank to reducer piping etc?), must be the pickup pipe in the tank, assuming it it a multivalve tank.

Would expect the injectors with black coils to be on their last legs though... Sometimes when they're old they make a louder ticking noise, not always. It is just possible that an injector or two could be an issue.

Good luck mate!

Simon

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 Post subject: Re: OMVL Strange problem
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:13 pm 
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Hey Simon,

My fault i should of been more clear!

The injectors seem ok, i put new pistons and o rings etc in them when i first fitted the system

So if the omvl isnt very stable when new should i get a different reg or easier to stick with the omvl?

I am also going to go over the wirirng loom with a multimeter as well as i didnt wire it up i just changed the whole engine loom so just unplugged and plugged in

Will keep you posted

Thanks

Cheers

Lance


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 Post subject: Re: OMVL Strange problem
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:56 pm 
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Will be easier to stick with the OMVL Dream reducer as you won't need to change piping and brackets while the reducer temp sensor will be compatible with your OMVL ECU. Temp sensors supplied with many reducers would not be compatible, though you would be able to buy a separate temp sensor for most reducers that would be compatible.

Even the new Dream reducers should easily flow enough gas to fuel your Falcon's engine. the pressure stability issue won't amount to a problem,

Simon.

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 Post subject: Re: OMVL Strange problem
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:29 am 
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Cool thanks Simon,

I have ordered the new reg hopefully i get it soon, will let u know how it goes

Cheers

Lance


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 Post subject: Re: OMVL Strange problem
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:25 pm 
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Good that you're buying the reducer.

Hope you don't mind me saying but I just noticed this mate...
cach22 wrote:
i tweaked the values so i got my desired a/f ratio out the exhaust
That's not how you calibrate the system... Should make sure you're getting lambda to flick on petrol (various load points etc with the engine running closed loop), then all the while with a steady throttle note the Pinj, switch to gas and note the Pinj again.. Calibrate the system so Pinj doesn't change when you switch between petrol / gas under closed loop running. For calibrating open loop (due to high load) your A/F mixture measuring method is the correct way, but the engine will only run open loop at high loads, maybe the bottom 4 rows on the map (at least below around 3500rpm).

If you look at the shape of the default map after resetting the ECU and running autocal you'll see the numbers get lower towards the bottom. Might be an idea not to focus on flat out driving at first - get an idea for the shape of the map between idle, medium and medium/high loads at lower rpms before trying to set up flat out/high rpm areas of the map... Just possible your A/F measurements are incorrect due to partial misfires etc due to excess fuel at high loads, if your idle figures are correct in the map I would guess your flat out fuelling is around 30% rich, in which case this would put extra demand on the reducer...

Simon

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 Post subject: Re: OMVL Strange problem
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:06 pm 
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Hi Simon,

Yeah that makes sence other wise the petrol ecu will be compensating for the lpg. When i get the new reducer i will do a full recal and see how it goes :)

Cheers

Lance


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