LPG Forum


All times are UTC



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:25 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2987
Location: Yorkshire
My last post includes an example, hopefully there will be a lesson in the example which will steer others (who will be fitting their own LPG system) to buy their LPG kit from myself or Dai, the example isn't there to criticise anyone.

Of course very interested in sorting out your problem!

Again this is for broader readership not aimed at anyone in-particular - On the one hand I'm pleased I have a reputation for sorting every LPG problem put before me and that people will travel long distance to come to me, on the other hand the overall trade image would be improved if dodgy installers disappeared and mediocre installers upped their game.. With improved image of LPG conversions there might be more LPG conversions done overall, I might be equally as busy while customers would generally be more local (to their installer). Image could also improve if DIYers received high quality tech support during their install and then had their vehicle checked over by the tech support guy following the install - not just checking the basic nuts and bolts safety aspects, ideally also checking drive-ability (which can have at least an equal bearing on real world safety as the nuts and bolts aspects, and is more likely to have bearing on LPG conversion image than nuts and bolts aspects). Good results from an LPG conversion might persuade one of the vehicle owner's friends to convert to LPG and four friends to become more aware but remain neutral, bad results might persuade five of the owner's friends to be forever against it, even if the install was DIY.

Off at a tangent but related to diagnostics/repairs etc - I just fixed my girlfriend's dad's Focus diesel, being a diesel not the sort of thing I usually work on. Issue was it would occasionally/randomly just cut out, sometimes it could be restarted immediately, other times it would not even crank when turning the key. The cutting out occurred at the same time as the dashboard lighting up like a Xmas tree and dials all going to zero. Before I was informed he took the car to his mate's garage who diagnosed the cutting out due to a broken crank sensor (but didn't change it), then a mobile vehicle electronics guy was called out who diagnosed 'broken electrics, probably the engine ECU so you should get shut of the car asap'. A Ford main dealer ran diagnostics but the fault never occurred during their time with it (perhaps because they didn't even take it on the road) and their diagnostics gave the car a clean bill of health except for the none-working aircon which they reckoned could cost £1500 to repair, their advice also to get rid of it. I had a go in it... Took a while for a fault to occur while I was driving but then when it did occur the engine never cut out but the fly by wire throttle stopped responding at the same time as the dashboard acting up (so if it cut out while he was driving maybe he'd been stalling it, rather than the engine cutting out, in which case fault wouldn't be the crank sensor). I found that the OBD port stopped working at the same time, so now I suspected a canbus fault. When the dash, throttle and OBD started working the code reader directly confirmed a canbus fault, so now I know I'm on the right lines. He'd recently had a big new battery and aftermarket radio fitted so I'm thinking maybe a canbus fault is due to low or high voltage to one or more ECU's. My OBD scanner serves dual function of voltage chacking (at OBD port) for testing the battery during cranking etc, and it seemed there was a correlation between when the fault occurred and voltage at the OBD port being a bit high, but I knew that could just be coincidence. Anyway I checked and cleaned all the battery connections but the same fault occurred. I was aware Fords can suffer dash/canbus problems when an aftermarket radio is fitted so I considered swapping the original radio back in.. But I was also aware that the canbus works in a chain with each module forwarding data to the next (throttle, dash, body, climate, engine, ABS), so it was likely there was a canbus fault, perhaps between the dash and engine ECUs. Then I found that banging on top of the dash above the clocks could bring on the problem or cure it - so now it's very likely I'm homing in on the fault being canbus related at the dashboard. Easy to remove the dash clocks on the Focus, unclip the bit of trim forward of the steering wheel reveals the 2 securing screws, remove them and the dash clocks unit can be pulled out. I pulled the dash unit out with the engine running and found the slightest movement of the unit would bring on or cure the fault. Before disconnecting the loom from the dash unit I looked at the connector and it seemed the securing clip wasn't fastened properly... Nevertheless I removed and partially stripped the dash unit to check for dry soldered joints etc, found no problem. Put it all back together including connecting the loom properly and haven't been able to recreate the same problem since, either by driving or banging on the dash. So it would seem girlfriend's dad paid a few hundred quid out for @!## diagnostics that gave incorrect answers in 2 cases and no answer in the other case, when the only issue with the car's reliability/drive-ability was actually just a loose wiring loom clip. Lost count of the number of times LPG repairs customers have told me they have been elsewhere, sometimes to several places, for diagnostics that led to ineffective repairs (due to incorrect diagnostic) that cost hundreds of pounds, then have come here and I found the fault to be entirely unrelated to what was diagnosed elsewhere, often the repair needing no parts and just a bit of my time. Including where the customer has visited several installers and/or even the LPG system importer/supplier.

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:27 pm 
Member

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 449
LPGC wrote:


Off at a tangent but related to diagnostics/repairs etc - I just fixed my girlfriend's dad's Focus diesel, being a diesel not the sort of thing I usually work on. Issue was it would occasionally/randomly just cut out, sometimes it could be restarted immediately, other times it would not even crank when turning the key. The cutting out occurred at the same time as the dashboard lighting up like a Xmas tree and dials all going to zero. Before I was informed he took the car to his mate's garage who diagnosed the cutting out due to a broken crank sensor (but didn't change it), then a mobile vehicle electronics guy was called out who diagnosed 'broken electrics, probably the engine ECU so you should get shut of the car asap'. A Ford main dealer ran diagnostics but the fault never occurred during their time with it (perhaps because they didn't even take it on the road) and their diagnostics gave the car a clean bill of health except for the none-working aircon which they reckoned could cost £1500 to repair, their advice also to get rid of it. I had a go in it... Took a while for a fault to occur while I was driving but then when it did occur the engine never cut out but the fly by wire throttle stopped responding at the same time as the dashboard acting up (so if it cut out while he was driving maybe he'd been stalling it, rather than the engine cutting out, in which case fault wouldn't be the crank sensor). I found that the OBD port stopped working at the same time, so now I suspected a canbus fault. When the dash, throttle and OBD started working the code reader directly confirmed a canbus fault, so now I know I'm on the right lines. He'd recently had a big new battery and aftermarket radio fitted so I'm thinking maybe a canbus fault is due to low or high voltage to one or more ECU's. My OBD scanner serves dual function of voltage chacking (at OBD port) for testing the battery during cranking etc, and it seemed there was a correlation between when the fault occurred and voltage at the OBD port being a bit high, but I knew that could just be coincidence. Anyway I checked and cleaned all the battery connections but the same fault occurred. I was aware Fords can suffer dash/canbus problems when an aftermarket radio is fitted so I considered swapping the original radio back in.. But I was also aware that the canbus works in a chain with each module forwarding data to the next (throttle, dash, body, climate, engine, ABS), so it was likely there was a canbus fault, perhaps between the dash and engine ECUs. Then I found that banging on top of the dash above the clocks could bring on the problem or cure it - so now it's very likely I'm homing in on the fault being canbus related at the dashboard. Easy to remove the dash clocks on the Focus, unclip the bit of trim forward of the steering wheel reveals the 2 securing screws, remove them and the dash clocks unit can be pulled out. I pulled the dash unit out with the engine running and found the slightest movement of the unit would bring on or cure the fault. Before disconnecting the loom from the dash unit I looked at the connector and it seemed the securing clip wasn't fastened properly... Nevertheless I removed and partially stripped the dash unit to check for dry soldered joints etc, found no problem. Put it all back together including connecting the loom properly and haven't been able to recreate the same problem since, either by driving or banging on the dash. So it would seem girlfriend's dad paid a few hundred quid out for @!## diagnostics that gave incorrect answers in 2 cases and no answer in the other case, when the only issue with the car's reliability/drive-ability was actually just a loose wiring loom clip. Lost count of the number of times LPG repairs customers have told me they have been elsewhere, sometimes to several places, for diagnostics that led to ineffective repairs (due to incorrect diagnostic) that cost hundreds of pounds, then have come here and I found the fault to be entirely unrelated to what was diagnosed elsewhere, often the repair needing no parts and just a bit of my time. Including where the customer has visited several installers and/or even the LPG system importer/supplier.

Simon


But the question is why was the securing clip not fastened properly on the connector?

_________________
Nissan Skyline 350gt Lpg fitted by Lpgc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:03 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2987
Location: Yorkshire
57jam89 wrote:
But the question is why was the securing clip not fastened properly on the connector?
I wondered too and looked further into it after the fix. Ford dash problems are common and particularly with the connectors, though not always due to loose clip. Maybe the clip was never done up properly at the factory, maybe it worked loose since 2005, maybe Halfords took the dash clocks unit out while putting in his DAB radio (he likes 'planet rock'..) a couple of years ago and didn't do the clip up properly.

Ford's canbus system on Focus doesn't seem a great design... If one component acts up it can make the whole of the canbus fail, taking with it pas, abs, engine throttle control (obviously goes closed!), dashboard and sometimes even factory radio. Even a fault vehicle speed sensor can do this, making the whole car none-functional. Fitting a none standard radio can cause problems such as dashboard lights never going out.

Also following the fix I went to the local garage I'd tasked with removing and refitting the Subaru engine I needed to rebuild (that's another story, I'll write a thread on this soon).. Mentioned the Focus problem to the two mechanics there (old fella and his son). Son says 'Yes, dashes are common problem on Fords' :) Correct. Old fella says 'Crank sensor I would have thought'... :roll: . Sometimes old skool mechanics, though probably great at mechanics, aren't great at new skool problems. Canbus problems are more related to computer networking problems than general vehicle electrical or mechanical problems.

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:02 pm 
Member

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 449
See you Wednesday Simon.

Thanks.

_________________
Nissan Skyline 350gt Lpg fitted by Lpgc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 9:29 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2987
Location: Yorkshire
57jam89 wrote:
See you Wednesday Simon.

Thanks.
Yep, see you then mate!

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 11:05 am 
Member

Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:45 am
Posts: 322
Purely anecdotal, a bit humourous and even a tiny bit relevant having just read the last few posts i remembered the story about Bill Gates at some business conference where he said something along the lines of "If cars had progressed as fast as computers, we would all be driving cars that went at the speed of light and did 1000mpg" Allegedly the CEO of Chevrolet piped up "Maybe - but would you want your car to crash 3 times a day?"

With the Fords in mind, it seems they do indeed have a car that "crashes" on a regular basis! :lol:

It seems these days the whole world is intent on computerising everything simply "because we can". Some years ago i had a Volvo 740 GLEa with a common Volvo fault, the fuel gauge had packed up. The cost of a new gauge wasn't viable and a working second hand one wasn't readily available so i posted on the Volvo forum to see if others had fitted any form of aftermarket gauge with any success.
I had many replies that suggested using a PIC controller and programming it to display the fuel tank contents. In the end i designed a very simple circuit using an LM3914 voltmeter chip that displays the output as a row of 10 LEDs - total cost about a fiver and it worked very well.

Sometimes simplicity is the best answer! I also heard a tale from my MoT tester a month or so back about someone who bought a cheap "ebay type" coil pack for his CANBUS equipped car. This coil pack turned out to be faulty and obliterated the entire CANBUS system including several ECUs - total cost about 3 grand to renew/repair the system, all for the sake of saving something like £30 on a coil pack!
I daresay if it hadn't had CANBUS on his car, the coil pack would have been fine, even if it was an ebay cheapy.

_________________
Cheers,
Dave


Somewhere in Suffolk with a Jeep, 2 Rovers and a V6 Volvo

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 6:07 pm 
Member

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 449
Simon I have a question for you before I pop up - then I got my jag it had the engine light on with fault code P0430 (Catalyst efficiency below threshold, bank 2), the same cat also rattled so I removed and gutted both and refitted both cats.

I then fitted 2 of these -

Image

to the after cat 02 sensors which stopped the fault code po430.

Will having these fitted change anything in setting the lpg up because I can remove them if so?

Thanks.

_________________
Nissan Skyline 350gt Lpg fitted by Lpgc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:29 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2987
Location: Yorkshire
57jam89 wrote:
Simon I have a question for you before I pop up - then I got my jag it had the engine light on with fault code P0430 (Catalyst efficiency below threshold, bank 2), the same cat also rattled so I removed and gutted both and refitted both cats.

I then fitted 2 of these (pics) to the after cat 02 sensors which stopped the fault code po430.

Will having these fitted change anything in setting the lpg up because I can remove them if so?

Thanks.
Shouldn't affect anything but it's worth saying this:

Post cat lambda related codes may only occur in the absence of certain other OBD codes. E.g. If a vehicle has an existing OBD error code (say a code for running too rich according to pre-cat lambda) then it might not be realistic to expect the cat to do a great job of fully cleaning up the exhaust, so even if the post cat sensor sees dodgy emissions the ECU might ignore this and not generate a code for dodgy cat. Another OBD code doesn't have to exist to prevent cat codes being generated, pending codes or the ECU not having completed all it's OBD (I/M readiness) checks can also prevent cat codes being generated. I/M readiness checks can take multiple engine warm-ups and mixed driving to complete. When certain OBD errors are cleared the status of all I/M readiness checks can be reset to not completed..

You say the car OBD does not now report cat efficiency problems, I should be able to calibrate your LPG system properly.. But whether or not you'll get cat related codes later (after your OBD system has completed all it's other checks) I don't know. If you get cat codes later it will be due to having gutted the cat, not due to running on LPG. No problem gutting cats on some vehicle models, can be a problem on other models, unknown regards V6 Ford derivative engine'd Jags or what effect the 90 degree spacer will have. On some vehicles would expect spacing the probe too far from exhaust gas flow to cause an OBD code for e.g. too little fluctuation of signal.

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:39 pm 
Member

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 449
Hi Simon,
Well the drive home didn't go as well as I hoped.
The 1st 20 mins it seemed fine but then started to misfire/go lumpy under load and within 40 mins it was worst than its ever been.
Driving with cruise on was fine but so soon as the car hits a hill I could feel it go lumpy, at one point with cruise set at 75mph I had to brake which slowed me down to about 69mph and then I pressed resume the misfire was so bad the engine wouldn't pull and the gearbox had to change gear so it would accelerate.
The last 30 miles was on A roads and it's lumpy under load all the time from 1500 rpm in every gear but 1st.

And it's misfires about every 20 seconds then idling in drive.

You could say it's not driveable on gas at the moment.

No ecu light and no pending fault codes and fine on petrol.

I thought we/you had cracked it today, sorry.

Here's a screen shot then I got home -

Image


What's puzzling me is why is the S-type jag always end up running rough under load then on gas!
I swapped the lpg system from my last s-type back in January 2015 and it run smoothly (set up by me to the best of knowledge). Then had ecu problems so fitted new ecu and injectors, I set it up and was running smooth, then a few months later had to adjust maps and again running smoothly.
Again was running rough under load so got tubbs to check and adjust, then few months later it back to being rough under load again.

_________________
Nissan Skyline 350gt Lpg fitted by Lpgc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:14 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2987
Location: Yorkshire
Hi Simon it was nice to see you today.

Bugger!

1 Just to recap, then.. When you arrived we didn't bother test driving the car with the map you already had (your pic on p3 of this thread) as that map was never going to be a good 'un, it looked like a dog's dinner! I immediately cleared off all the rpm correction, disabled OBD connectivity, zeroed the 0.4ms offset and set about calibrating. During the hour plus we spent driving and calibrating the car (I think you were here 2 hours or so total?) all seemed very well, the flat spot etc you'd suffered previously had gone and the car seemed to behave impeccably on LPG, except for the very occasional misfire at idle - which at the time, and still now, I think ominous. We couldn't determine which cylinder very occasionally misfired at idle (by switching each cylinder back to petrol in turn), as this happened regardless of which cylinder was switched back to petrol. Also, this test confirmed all your LPG injectors were working properly and delivering the same amount of fuel, as disabling any one LPG injector did not affect fuel trims. Your fuel return system is working very well indeed with fuel petrol pressure when running on LPG very very similar to petrol pressure when running on LPG during all driving conditions.

2. We discussed temperature readings and temperature based fuelling correction - Your gas temp seemed to show around 60c regardless of how the vehicle was driven, this isn't the norm as usually gas temp should fall as throughput through the reducer increases (with increasing engine load). Your reducer is better than most in terms of both pressure and gas output (vapour temp) stability but still I would expect gas vapour temp to fluctuate more than your system showed. Sometimes the 60c gas vapour temp reading was higher than the reducer water temp reading (which is only just possible if there is substantial under bonnet heating of post reducer gas vapour). Your gas vapour temp sensor is incorporated in the Oscar pressure sensor, which you have mounted beside the (hot) reducer and not too far away from (and in line of sight of) the driver side exhaust manifold.. I considered this could produce inaccurate readings but discounted this as a problem.

3. During calibration we never really settled to a constant cruise at around motorway speeds with the heater set at various temperatures.. This I now regret! What I'm now thinking could be your problem is the reducer temperature falling with heater (climate control) set at a certain temp with the engine doing relatively low rpm (decent sized engine / auto, won't be doing many rpm at motorway speeds) and I regret not checking your reducer water plumbing (if your reducer water circuit isn't plumbed in properly, reducer temp and hence gas vapour temp may plummet with certain climate control settings as you drive at motorway speeds with relatively low and unchanging engine rpm). Relating to point 2, gas temp of 60c is relatively hot gas and is around the only gas vapour temp we saw, but now I wonder if reducer and hence vapour temp plummeted during your drive home... A vapour temp of 20c might provoke over-leaning of the mixture (most systems over compensate for temperature by default). Also as discussed, your ECU does not support adjustment of temperature related mixture adjustment (so it wasn't possible for me to decrease mixture leaning for low gas temps, which I think might have been a positive in this scenario, which I partly anticipated). Even if it did support temp compensation adjustment, if the above is the case the real fix might be to cure any heater water flow problem to the reducer... To confirm this would need to ask you what the reducer and vapour temps were on your drive home (but I know your laptop battery was flat so you won't have had it plugged in...). In future, monitoring reducer and gas vapour temps, from cold engine start-up, may give further insight into the problem.

4. I am certain that your map is now correct, I set this map based on fuel trim comparisons between LPG / petrol, it now looks almost intuitively correct for most vehicles and does look intuitively correct for your specific vehicle (Jag 3L, a bit different shaped map expected) with your MJ injectors at your reducer pressure. The RPM correction I finally entered (which I zeroed in point 1) is also intuitively correct with -7% max at 500rpm with no load at idle, decreasing to -5%, to -3% with load/rpm and proved to be correct according to fuel trims etc. In point 1 I believe I was correct to disable OBD as your trims at idle on petrol were around +10% but (as far as I remember) were close to zero off idle... Your original RPM correction would have been more positive at 500rpm than at 1500 rpm - that is not intuitive or correct..

5. I have converted many S type Jags, 3L 3etc, to LPG with no problems and with (at least at face value) lower spec ECU (some that don't support rpm adjustment), certainly with lower spec injectors (not as linear) and lower spec reducer (not as pressure or temp stable as your reducer ££'s dual stage reducer) without any issues. In point 1 we have a problem with various cylinder occasional misfires, you originally came in with drive-ability issues, in point 1 after re-calibration we cured all the off-idle drive-ability problems you'd previously experienced (though I still thought the occasional misfires ominous). As said you should really have a valve lube fitted - VSR will lead to a whole range of issues first seen when running on LPG rather than running on petrol... these engines really need a lube system. But your immediate problem may not be VSR or compression related (worth checking now but we didn't check today as the remap seemed to solve your issues), your problem now may be due to over leaning of mixture with cool gas temps (or reducer spitting out liquid gas to the vapour side if it gets too cold. It is also possible, though unlikely, the solenoid on your petrol return system closes (maybe due to duff coil) leading to adverse petrol pressure readings, though I would expect this to generate an OBD error of it's own.

I have a reputation for, and I pride myself, for fixing every LPG issue that comes my way. You have gone home, a 3 hour drive, and suffered an LPG problem... Please look into the points I listed above and if your temp readings do not drop we could maybe come to some arrangement, perhaps where I visit you, to sort your problem. If your problem is not VSR or temp adjustment related and I find I have made a mistake in mapping etc then this visit (involving 6 hours of my driving time plus ful plus time at yours etc) would be free of charge - I have done similar for customers on a few occasions in the past - No worries, a plus for my reputation if anything! I am very certain the mapping / adjustments etc I did today are correct.

Regards,

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:52 am 
Member

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 449
Hi Simon,
Just to make it clear I don't think for one minute you have messed my system up and made it worse.
It was still worth the journey up and your time spent on setting it up properly. Just wanted to make sure you knew this!

I did connect laptop from cold start to work today but I want to do return trip later and report findings later.

So am I right in thinking the problem can only be down to vaporizer/gas temperature? If not what else could be the problem.

I will check jags coolant layout and where I have cut into also. Maybe the vaporizer is too high, where have you fitted them on a s-type?

Thanks.

_________________
Nissan Skyline 350gt Lpg fitted by Lpgc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 4:48 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2987
Location: Yorkshire
Hi Simon,

I didn't think you thought I'd made it worse... I just explained things on a point by point / matter of fact way for clarity, aim being to get to the bottom of your problem.

Problem could be gas / reducer temp - You might have some news on that later but may take driving in very similar conditions to when the fault occurred to see the same problem again.

I have fitted reducers at a similar height / location as you have on S Types before. Does your model have the 2 heater valves near the main radiator? If reducer is plumbed to wrong side of those then turning heater down will reduce water flow through the reducer.

Other issues - engine compression probs will occur with continued use if you don't fit a lube on your engine, but wouldn't expect a compression prob to bring about your car's symptoms.

Regards,

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 4:50 pm 
Member

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 449
Hi, I have checked where I plumbed the reducer in which is as follows -

Image

_________________
Nissan Skyline 350gt Lpg fitted by Lpgc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:03 pm 
Member

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 449
LPGC wrote:
Hi Simon,

I didn't think you thought I'd made it worse... I just explained things on a point by point / matter of fact way for clarity, aim being to get to the bottom of your problem.

Problem could be gas / reducer temp - You might have some news on that later but may take driving in very similar conditions to when the fault occurred to see the same problem again.

I have fitted reducers at a similar height / location as you have on S Types before. Does your model have the 2 heater valves near the main radiator? If reducer is plumbed to wrong side of those then turning heater down will reduce water flow through the reducer.

Other issues - engine compression probs will occur with continued use if you don't fit a lube on your engine, but wouldn't expect a compression prob to bring about your car's symptoms.

Regards,

Simon


Hi Simon,

Well I have been away for the weekend and the jag has run 100% on gas.

Yes my Jag has the 2 heater valves which are below the reducer. Have you seen my picture of the car's coolant layout/how I plumbed it in. Is this the same as the ones you have done?

I'm thinking that maybe then the climate control requires no heat (both heater valves closed) and then cruising at constant motorway speeds where engine is at relatively low rpm (like you said earlier) that the coolant pipes around the reducer/heater valve sort of die off with coolant flow which then causes the problem.

Is there anyway of over coming this, as I can't see how else I could plumb the reducer?

Thanks.

_________________
Nissan Skyline 350gt Lpg fitted by Lpgc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:20 am 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2987
Location: Yorkshire
Hi Simon (57Jam),

Your coolant flow diagram shows the reducer plumbed to the correct side of heater flow control valves and in parallel with the matrix, so that should work OK and I believe that's how I have plumbed them on your vehicle model too.

Yet, as you said, we don't know if coolant flow through your reducer is nevertheless not happening under certain driving conditions. The way to check would be to drive under the conditions where the fault occurred, with heater set as it was when fault occurred, try to make the fault occur while monitoring those temp readings via LPG software.

Other installers have used a series reducer water connection with the throttle body heater pipes on your model of Jag. If your fault re-occurs and reducer flow seems to be at fault you might try switching to this plumbing arrangement, you would need some pipe size adaptors for this. I prefer reducer plumbing similar to your existing setup as flow through the throttle body is only a fraction of flow through the wider bore heater pipes, so should keep the reducer hotter when you put your foot down.

BTW How full is the engine cooling system? Have you checked for air-locks in the reducer? It's in a relatively high position with pipes going more or less straight down so would be a classic spot for an air lock.

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 2:50 pm 
Installer

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:56 pm
Posts: 2581
Location: North Wales
I have seen a very similar fault and that was down to an intermittent fault with the pressure sensor. Worth monitoring your pressure and map values while it is missing

_________________
http://www.classicswede.com/
http://www.classicswede.co.uk/LPG/cat17 ... 10800.aspx

LPG installer Anglesey North Wales

DIY LPG Kits

07824887160


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:07 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2987
Location: Yorkshire
That would do it too, Dai. I didn't see any issues with pressure etc while the car was here or would have picked up on it, though having said that I didn't see any issues with reducer getting cold either...

Anyway, you reckon the map looks a bit better now?

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:18 pm 
Member

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 449
Hi,
I will check for a air lock in the reducer but surely if it did have one I would have the problem more often.

My problem is having the laptop connected at the same time as then the fault/problem happens, I have had laptop running for about 4 hours then driving with no luck!

Yes the maps look better, thanks.

_________________
Nissan Skyline 350gt Lpg fitted by Lpgc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 6:49 pm 
Installer

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm
Posts: 2987
Location: Yorkshire
57jam89 wrote:
Yes the maps look better, thanks.
That was aimed at Dai as another well known knowledgeable installer :lol:

Would think you'd have the problem more often with an airlock but there's a chance a partial lock would only cause problems under certain conditions.

Simon

_________________
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 2:56 pm 
Member

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 449
Hi, well I had the laptop on for 2 hours on a motorway cruise and still the problem didn't show!

I have decided not to have look if there is a air lock but until after it misfires again. I have ordered one of these from ebay -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121837702525? ... EBIDX%3AIT

I'm going to cable tie the temp probe to the side of the reducer and have display just sitting on the top of the dash waiting for the misfire to happen!

I'm not kept on replumbing the reducer to the small pipes throttle body but what about fitting a 'T' into the big hose which fed the coolant Rad (if you can buy the right size T), if the reducer is dropping temp?

Thanks.

_________________
Nissan Skyline 350gt Lpg fitted by Lpgc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Brian_H, RodH and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group